I am an "Yea" also (I'm In).. Please let me know anything that's needed..

"John,
We appreciate your support. We noticed that the Proposal includes what might be considered a loop hole by a sharp federal attorney. When referring to beer or wash, we are referring by definition to a liquid made from grain. Wine by definition is made from fruit. A sugar/water neutral is made from neither and they be other fermentables out there made from something other than fruit or grain. We don't want to let the TTB find a chink in our proposal. If you don't mind taking a look at this, we would appreciate it. I case anyone missed it - I am in!


A key difference exists between the production of distilled spirits and the production of beer or wine.
When beer or wine is produced, alcohol is created. However, when a distilled spirit is produced nothing
is created - the alcohol (that already exists in the wash) simply becomes more concentrated. So in order
to produce a distilled spirit, we must first produce a wash that contains alcohol. And since the process
of producing the wash also creates alcohol, it too becomes subject to regulation, and would therefore
require its own exemption.
Rather than complicate things further with multiple exemptions that distinguish between beer, wine,
and a wash intended for distillation (which is itself some form of beer or wine), it's much easier to
simply depend on the existing beer and wine exemptions. Specifically, the wash used for home
distilling must be the beer or wine that is already legally produced under the existing exemptions.
This approach also resolves another issue that arises when discussing a tax exemption for distilled
spirits: the annual production limit. Since the production of this wash would then be limited by existing
law, the distillate produced from that wash is also limited (to whatever can be produced under the
existing beer and wine exceptions). It should be noted that, with this approach, the actual amount of
alcohol created does not increase by adding an exemption for distilled spirits - the alcohol contained in
beer and wine that is already permitted by law is simply made more concentrated through distillation."

John,
I noticed a couple of other areas in the proposed document that should be looked at.

Under the Proposed Changes we say:

- You must use only the beer or wine that you legally produce in your own home.
- It is up to you to decide how much of that beer or wine you want to use for distilling purposes,
and how much you want to keep as is. However, the amount of beer and wine you produce is
limited to 100 gallons (one adult) or 200 gallons (more than one adult).

- You may only distill in your home (dwelling, shed, or yard) and you may use only the beer and
wine that was legally produced in your home.

In these changes we say explicitly that only fermented beer and wine can be distilled.

The Proposed Rule states:

(a) Distilled spirits for personal or family use
Subject to regulation prescribed by the Secretary, any adult may, without payment of tax, produce distilled spirits for
personal or family use and not for sale.
(1) The aggregate amount of distilled spirits exempt from tax under this subsection with respect to any household
shall not exceed that amount which is distilled from the beer and wine that is legally produced within a household
under § 5042 (a)(2) and § 5053 (e) of this Part.

The proposed Rule seems to say again that only the fermented beer and wine can be distilled. Obviously this would not include sugar/water mix or honeyshine. Our question is how to we change the wording just enough to include all fermentations? Your thoughts please.

We hope to have the website fully functional in about a week. the site has been "up" since the end of last week, but with just a simple "hello" message. As soon as the site is up we will post to this thread, the forum homepage, and anywhere else that we can in order to get the message out. I also intend to offer the option of supporting the cause by including your information without paying for membership, but that is meant for those who support us, but maybe do not distill currently. You know, family... friends... etc., Get them all involved!

There are a few benefits that we want to add in for members, but those may take a bit longer to implement, as our #1 priority right now is chasing legalization.

Rick

"

I don't think there's a problem based on current administrative law:

27 CFR 19.1 - Definitions:






The definitions of beer & wine include ale, lager, barley wine, cider, perry, rice wine, mead and similar. These are all legal to produce for personal or family use. Brewers use all sorts of stuff, sugar, treacle, honey, rice, corn ... and yes, even potato and pumpkin. There are also ""wines"" from things like tapioca. A pure water/sugar ""wine"" would probably be considered an ""Agricultural Wine"" ... which is where mead fits in:

27 CFR §24.200 - Production of Agricultural Wine - General.


I think the KISS philosophy is best. If you can make the ""mash, wort, wash"" legally under existing law, then it should be legal to distill for ""personal or family use"" under the proposed law. I understand the concern, but if we succeed, I think it would be unlikely for an individual suffer seizure of property and a felony conviction because he was using a sugar wash rather than AG beer or ""normal"" wine."

Thanks in advance to everyone who is already committing to this. We will be posting on the forum, as well as our website, as soon as the site is fully functional.

I'm 100% behind you guys. I'll put my name on, I'll pay my share. I actually have never posted here until now, but I saw a link from AD to this thread. There will be many others from other forums that will want to support you as well. Thank you very much for all your hard work!

looks like Florida is getting hammered again http://www.claytodayonli...rrested-for-moon-shining

if you noticed he said Hillbilly Stills told him was legal to own one. Maybe he can chime in

From http://www.ttb.gov/spirits/faq.shtml:
S3: I've seen ads for home distilling equipment in catalogs ("turn wine into brandy," "make your own essential oils"). Is it legal to buy and use a still like that?

Under Federal rules administered by TTB, it depends on how you use the still. You may not produce alcohol with these stills unless you qualify as a distilled spirits plant (see earlier question). However, owning a small still and using it for other purposes is allowed. You should also check with your State and local authorities - their rules may differ.

A still is defined as apparatus capable of being used to separate ethyl alcohol from a mixture that contains alcohol. Small stills (with a cubic distilling capacity of a gallon or less) that are used for laboratory purposes or for distilling water or other non-alcoholic materials are exempt from our rules. If you buy a small still and use it to distill water or extract essential oils by steam or water extraction methods, you are not subject to TTB requirements. If you produce essential oils by a solvent method and you get alcohol as a by-product of your process, we consider that distilling. Even though you are using and recovering purchased alcohol, you are separating the alcohol from a mixture -distilling.