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Offline LWTCS  
#21 Posted : Saturday, September 17, 2011 10:13:03 AM(UTC)
LWTCS


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Cleaning is just a wash out with water really. Etho is a perty good solvent......Plus I only make rums. And in doing so,,I kinda prefer my outfit,,,,,,,,,,well seasonedWink Them famous Pusser's boilers are 200 years old and made of wood ya know! Azeotropic Neutral is for the vodka crew.

A typical hobby sized tray might only hold 50-75 ml of liquid during a run.

My top (3) trays hold 300 ml a piece (but do not have to run that way,,,,specially when doing the rums) and my big (big) tray holds 2.5 liters or so.

Why are you no longer in your profession?
Offline Max Reflux  
#22 Posted : Saturday, September 17, 2011 10:16:50 AM(UTC)
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"
Originally Posted by: LWTCS Go to Quoted Post
Sounds like you could use some tri-clamps

Flour paste will seal any leaks under normal operating conditions....Dunno about while running under a vac?


Swagelok or Parker fittings for everything 1"" or less. Brass or stainless. Pricey, but last forever, no gaskets. No leaks. Pure vacuum to 3000psi.

I can't weld stainless any more than I can do rocket-surgery. I'm gonna punch a stainless Parker fitting into the new Brewhaus boiler for an RTD and two in each column section. I'll have a buddy weld 'em up.

Take a 1/4"" Parker and bore through the shoulder so it is 0.250"" all the way through. Get some 1/4"" RTD's and you can slide them through (instead of where tubing would have hit the shoulder) and you can lightly compress the nut and ferrule a brazillion times.

Meat thermometers like the one I got from Brewhaus (not knocking it, I'm sure it's fine for top quality hooch) read slow and in large steps. An RTD to the right instrument (more about those if you're interested) have a lag of less than a half a second and are accurate within a 1/10th degree F.

I haven't read much yet, but I'm surprised to have not run across folks talking about the temperature of the mixture in the boiler. And I have not seen any photos of any such measurement. Unless one is boiling something other than a fermentation of edible substances, the temperature of what is in the kettle is an exact indication of the ratio of water to ethanol (adjusted for pressure). The meat thermometer meant for the top only gives an alarm on high temperature, which is fine, but one for low is lacking. In the boiler, an alarm past set-point would get you ready for end of batch before it even goes up the column."
Offline LWTCS  
#23 Posted : Saturday, September 17, 2011 10:47:40 AM(UTC)
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"Lots more theory gets discussed at some other forums.

Boiler temps are the meat and potatoes of most theory that gets discussed.

In truth we really don't care what the boiler temp is. but we all need to understand why the alcohol and water mixture will dictate the boiler temps at any given point during a run. And trying to govern the boiler temp will prove fiddly as hell since the temp will increase as the etho continues to be liberated from the bulk amount of water contained within the boiler. Steady input is best.

Most fellers running columns only care what the head temps are...And a good portion of pot stillers run by power management and output.

Guess if I had my druthers I'd have a thermo at each plate level so I could follow the abv to the business end. But I read by out put and alcometer floating in my parrot."
Offline Max Reflux  
#24 Posted : Saturday, September 17, 2011 10:48:39 AM(UTC)
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"
Originally Posted by: LWTCS Go to Quoted Post
Cleaning is just a wash out with water really. Etho is a perty good solvent......Plus I only make rums. And in doing so,,I kinda prefer my outfit,,,,,,,,,,well seasonedWink Them famous Pusser's boilers are 200 years old and made of wood ya know!

Famous? Who? No disrespect, I'm new to this, but I've got the feeling you're using the term in a much more respectable way than I ever have.
Originally Posted by: LWTCS Go to Quoted Post
Azeotropic Neutral is for the vodka crew.

I kid you not, sir, I was looking at a site that's selling distillation stuff and they made reference to why 100% is not achievable because it takes water to condense alcohol. They went on to say, ""that's why they call it the 'Angel's share' "". Even I know what the Angel's Share means, and I'm not in the business. I immediately left their site.

Care to share overall dimensions and through-put of your rig?

I ""got out of the business"" when regulations made it impossible for independent refineries to exist. I hired on as a kid and in a non-union shop learned how to sweep, how to listen to orders, then how to be part of the control-room team, make two dozen or so mil-spec products from ever-changing feedstocks, and do crossword puzzles. Rebuild pneumatic controllers, program the new stuff, work on pumps, fight fires, battle engineers with all the answers, and work with them by taking them into the units and adjusting what they were taught to how it runs.

Tweaks we made outside the lines on long boring nights drew immediate attention. Not only from the boss, but from UOP. (That's where the math fails... or succeeds... I'm not sure...)

The place was built in the middle of nowhere in 1933. By 1972 it was surrounded by homes, schools and activists. By 1993 the costs of regulation were higher than an independent could absorb (even though we beat every major.... they just got extensions). The gates closed in '94. I look at google-earth now and see that it is all gone. I cannot tell you how that makes me feel. So that's how I got out of the business."
Offline Max Reflux  
#25 Posted : Saturday, September 17, 2011 11:03:05 AM(UTC)
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"""I'd have a thermo at each plate level so I could follow the abv to the business end.""

Heh heh heh


I still don't get the lack of attention to boiler temp.
We've got internet now.
Anybody can get the most local barometric pressure from their closest airport's ATIS every hour at least.
If you know the pressure you can know the exact percentage (better than a hygrometer) of what's in your pot if you know its temperature. You can track that temperature until it pukes undesirables unchecked by reflux toward the product port (which seems to be right next to the only common source of information)."
Offline LWTCS  
#26 Posted : Saturday, September 17, 2011 11:05:13 AM(UTC)
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"Wow,, your story is the story of where the whole dern country is now.


Most hobby stillers do not distill under a vacuum. Pics of your apparatus would be quite welcome at the other two hobby sites.

My rig:

52 liter boiler (beer keg)
4500 watt internal element with 100% variable heat/input controller.

Pics of my rig are in my gallery"
Offline Max Reflux  
#27 Posted : Saturday, September 17, 2011 11:09:06 AM(UTC)
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"Sorry about that. I often lip-off before I think.
I can see how controlling heat-input to the bottom is sluggish at best, and how the culture has, necessarily changed distillation around that.

Wait....
Sorry again. This culture invented it, not changed around it. Crap. I've got a lot to learn about what I've learned."
Offline LWTCS  
#28 Posted : Saturday, September 17, 2011 11:17:04 AM(UTC)
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"Most hobby stillers have access to calculators that are quite good at calculating potential yeild from grains, fruit and sugar.

The thing is that the numbers are not at all accurate at telling you what,,,or where the good likker is.....Only your senses can determine the best drinkin stock......With too much heat and a reflux condenser it is possible to push abv into the 90s and also likely that the likker is way too tailsy.........

Seems we focus most on tunning our pallets to tell us how to read our likker yield.

Numbers in this instance are not as dependable as One's pallet."
Offline Max Reflux  
#29 Posted : Saturday, September 17, 2011 1:59:45 PM(UTC)
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"
Originally Posted by: LWTCS Go to Quoted Post
Most hobby stillers have access to calculators that are quite good at calculating potential yeild from grains, fruit and sugar.

The thing is that the numbers are not at all accurate at telling you what,,,or where the good likker is.....Only your senses can determine the best drinkin stock......With too much heat and a reflux condenser it is possible to push abv into the 90s and also likely that the likker is way too tailsy.........

Seems we focus most on tunning our pallets to tell us how to read our likker yield.

Numbers in this instance are not as dependable as One's pallet.


So those are the ""cuts""? Small samples to chuck (or set aside), glitches in the run or an early end?. From what I've read here one might not notice it until the next day? So I'm supposed to leave 50 little jars of flammable fluid teetering around the house? Oh, and let me guess... I shouldn't smoke while partaking in my new hobby."
Offline Max Reflux  
#30 Posted : Saturday, September 17, 2011 5:25:33 PM(UTC)
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"So I go to kill the Yeasties and they're still bubbling away. Heck, as far as I know there is a Yeastie gal in her mom's dress dancing at homecoming with a Yeastie guy. I cannot kill them all.
Maybe in the morning.
Party on, Yeasties. Good job. Perhaps tomorrow I will kill you."
Offline ratflinger  
#31 Posted : Saturday, September 17, 2011 5:28:02 PM(UTC)
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Why kill them? They are still making alcohol. Let them run to finish & then strip.
Offline LWTCS  
#32 Posted : Sunday, September 18, 2011 12:20:25 AM(UTC)
LWTCS


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"
Originally Posted by: Max Reflux Go to Quoted Post
So those are the ""cuts""? Small samples to chuck (or set aside), glitches in the run or an early end?. From what I've read here one might not notice it until the next day? So I'm supposed to leave 50 little jars of flammable fluid teetering around the house? Oh, and let me guess... I shouldn't smoke while partaking in my new hobby.



Well,,,you don't have to.
But until yo get more familiar with your equipment and your recipe,,and learn to approximate where your transitions live,,,collecting in 250-300 ml increments is the best way to isolate those transitions without smearing nasty likker into your good likker.

All recipes are different. Fruits and/or grains can have varying amounts of ""heads"".....But if you start out by sticking with the same recipe for a goodly amount of time,,and get very familiar with your process,, you will be able to better reduce the amount of jars and the size of the jars/collection vessels needed to work with."
Offline heeler  
#33 Posted : Sunday, September 18, 2011 3:57:25 AM(UTC)
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Max Reflux, your right -- you do get a little bit lippy before you think and by all means SMOKE while your cooking high proof solvent like substance. When you get some runs under your belt you might get the gist of making cuts and being safety concious whilst making a hooch run. My only advise is to listen to these cats that have been giving advise cause they have been at this a long time.BigGrin
Offline Max Reflux  
#34 Posted : Sunday, September 18, 2011 4:11:50 AM(UTC)
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"Dear Heeler,

Sir, I humble before you all. I never intended to come off as lippy. Please know that what I've said is joking. Re-reading it I can see that one could find me to be a horse's butt but I didn't intend it that way.

My apologies to you and the community.

The Yeasties live! They are still bubbling a bit and they're gonna have to do so until two weeks from yesterday which will be the first time I'll have time again to isolate their excrement.

Crud. There I go again."
Offline Max Reflux  
#35 Posted : Sunday, September 18, 2011 4:13:34 AM(UTC)
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"I watched a couple of YouTube videos from one of the regulars here.
Very fun! Nice music."
Offline Max Reflux  
#36 Posted : Sunday, September 18, 2011 4:16:54 AM(UTC)
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"Do I need to be concerned about the temperature of the wash over the next two weeks? The Yeastie Boys have slowed to about a bubble a minute.
Ambient temps here at this time of year can go from 45* to 85*."
Offline heeler  
#37 Posted : Sunday, September 18, 2011 4:26:37 AM(UTC)
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No worries mate, once you make a few runs and can smell the different jars that you have set up added your 200 mls to, you'll really see what smells drinkable and what smells --well--solvent like. There's no way around getting those compounds in your wash but we can seperate them when they come out of the still by useing little vessels to collect and then toss out what smells yucky and keep what smells like -----yummy. If you run your still and collect like that instead of just letting everything run together you'll be much happier with the end result and so will your buddies when they dont wake up dead. (see we all have a humurous side)BigGrin
Offline heeler  
#38 Posted : Sunday, September 18, 2011 4:29:49 AM(UTC)
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That depends on what yeast you are useing. A little cooler is better than way too hot. If its a comercial yeast the pack will advise on temp ranges but with bakers yeast its pretty flexiable. But in my opinion 85 is WAY too hot.
Offline heeler  
#39 Posted : Sunday, September 18, 2011 4:34:08 AM(UTC)
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If you have an issue keeping it cool try a swamp cooler, you know your fermenter in a vessel with water and ice. Not to make it 50 degrees just cool it off.
Offline LWTCS  
#40 Posted : Sunday, September 18, 2011 5:59:47 AM(UTC)
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More important is consistent temps. 70/80 is often a good range.
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