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Offline more than I can drink  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, May 30, 2012 3:27:15 AM(UTC)
more than I can drink


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"When I first started in this very interesting hobby, words like heads, hearts, and tails had no meaning, so to fully understand what I was getting into here, I had a lot of reading to do.

So when it came to cuts, I didn't take any chances on the heads, and going blind was not for me, I saw it first-hand.

There was an older guy when I was younger living in a shack in our small village. He used a washing machine to make his brew in with molasses. This guy was dirty buy all means and carless (he had no washer for his laundry). One day I went to cut his grass (summer job) he told me he drank something and went blind. Being only ten years old I had no idea what he was talking about.

The guy sadly passed away a few weeks later.

Well after reading about cuts and being very careful, my collections of heads seemed too large compared to everyone else, so I set out to find how much methanol was actually in my wash or a close proximity.

They taught us in school how to check between ethanol and methanol, but I couldn't remember many, many years later. Did a little looking and here's what to do.

Ingredients and materials

: Sodium Hydroxide solution (If you make wine you will already have this, find at any homebrew store)

: Iodine Tincture (If your accident prone you will already have this, cheap at any drug store)

: 2 shot glasses, one labeled heads and the other hearts (hopefully you already have lots of glasses)

: 2 eye dropper (comes with you acid tester kit, pick up for a dollar at Wal-Mart)

: Heads from your cuts (you'll have some soon enough if you're reading the Brewhaus forum)

: Ethanol (I don't know where to get this stuff, good luck)



A Add 10 drops of heads (methanol) to one shot glass.

B Add 10 drops of hearts (ethanol) to the other shot glass.

C Add 25 drops of iodine to each shot glass.

D Add 10 drops of sodium hydroxide solution to each shot glass.

F Gently swirl the shot glasses a few times. The dark color of the iodine should start to fade.

G After 2 min carefully observe the two glasses.


*Warning
Sodium Hydroxide is something to use with caution, avoid contact with skin and do not breath in.



What you should see here is the ethanol, the good stuff, will turn and stay yellow and the methanol, the heads will turn clear. This test is not practical for everyday use, but if you're saving up the heads for gas line deicer and the label falls of the bottle, 2 min later, there is no doubt.

The lesson here is to always use common sense and not to use washing machines to fill, stir, ferment, and rack your wash in. lol

[ATTACH]290[/ATTACH] Items needed

[ATTACH]293[/ATTACH] Alcohol with iodine

[ATTACH]292[/ATTACH] Alcohol with sodium hydroxide after 2 minutes"
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Offline Bayou-Ruler  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, May 30, 2012 3:39:36 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: more than I can drink Go to Quoted Post
When I first started in this very interesting hobby, words like heads, hearts, and tails had no meaning, so to fully understand what I was getting into here, I had a lot of reading to do.

So when it came to cuts, I didn't take any chances on the heads, and going blind was not for me, I saw it first-hand.

There was an older guy when I was younger living in a shack in our small village. He used a washing machine to make his brew in with molasses. This guy was dirty buy all means and carless (he had no washer for his laundry). One day I went to cut his grass (summer job) he told me he drank something and went blind. Being only ten years old I had no idea what he was talking about.

The guy sadly passed away a few weeks later.

Well after reading about cuts and being very careful, my collections of heads seemed too large compared to everyone else, so I set out to find how much methanol was actually in my wash or a close proximity.

They taught us in school how to check between ethanol and methanol, but I couldn't remember many, many years later. Did a little looking and here's what to do.

Ingredients

: Sodium Hydroxide solution (If you make wine you will already have this, any homebrew store)

: Iodine Tincture (If your accident prone you will already have this, cheap at any drug store)

: 2 shot glasses, one labeled heads and the other hearts (hopefully you already have lots of glasses)

: 2 eye dropper (comes with you acid tester kit, a dollar at Wal-Mart)

: Heads from your cuts (you'll have some soon enough if you're reading the Brewhaus forum)

: Ethanol (I don't know where to get this stuff, good luck)



A Add 10 drops of heads (methanol) to one shot glass.

B Add 10 drops of hearts (ethanol) to the other shot glass.

C Add 25 drops of iodine to each shot glass.

D Add 10 drops of sodium hydroxide solution to each shot glass.

F Gently swirl the test-tubes a few times. The dark color of the iodine should start to fade.

G After 2 min carefully observe the two glasses.


*Warning
Sodium Hydroxide is something to use with caution, avoid contact with skin and do not breath in.



What you should see here is the ethanol, the good stuff, will turn and stay yellow and the methanol, the heads will turn clear. This test is not practical for everyday use, but if you're saving up the heads for gas line deicer and the label falls of the bottle, 2 min later, there is no doubt.

The lesson here is to always use common sense and not to use washing machines to fill, stir, ferment, and rack your wash in.



No the lesson here is that you need to do some more research on mashing, fermentation and, ethanol distillation. Considering that ethanol is the antidote for methanol your chances of getting methanol poisoning are slim to none.
Bayou Ethanol
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Offline more than I can drink  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, May 30, 2012 5:22:23 AM(UTC)
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"Bayou-ruler

I feel like I have offended you somehow. Not sure what I did wrong telling a little true story, sharing information and expressing my concern for my health and safty. The guy passed because he lived alone and could not see to take care of himself. His eye site came back a little, but he never did receive medical attention.Another contributing factor was the way he had lived his life. He died at home.

I just finished reading on Standardized Treatment of Severe Methanol Poisoning with Ethanol and Hemodialysis. Very informative, you were right, I did not know that. I guess I have more than I can drink, so I won"t need to drink the heads and I certainly wouldn"t condone a little methanol consumption because there is a remedy for that.

I know where you come from when you think you hear someone say moonshine will make you go blind. It upsets me too. 95% of people that I talk to have false information and when asked where you heard, they can"t answer. This is a funny thing, they make wine that they drink. It will contain some methanol. If you distill your wine for some reason why bother cutting the foreshots, mix it all together, but we still cut the fores, am I right.

Anyways bud, you know more than me about this kind a thing, so maybe I won"t post again unless it"s to ask for help, I always was the quiet one, taking it all in. Thanks for the welcome.

A guy told me, you don"t know a guy till you work for him. I told him you don"t know a guy till you drink with him. He no longer works for me and I no longer drink with my friend.

I forgot. There"s booze around here."
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Offline more than I can drink  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, May 30, 2012 8:02:45 AM(UTC)
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"Hey bigwheel, I"m new around here. I want to say that I have read and understood more on this forum in 48 hours than what I learned over the whole winter at Home distiller. I would like to tell you about reflux mode but first, here is my disclaimer, just for fun.

The information contained in this post is provided in good faith by the author for general guidance on matters of interest only. Given the inherent hazards of distilling alcohol, there may be omissions or inaccuracies in information contained in this post.

As a result, the information in this post is provided with the understanding that the author is not herein engaged in rendering any professional advice and services. As such, it should not be used as a substitute for consultation with professional and competent advisors. Before making any decision or taking any action based on the information contained in this post, you should consult a professional who is competent in providing professional advice in distilling alcohol.

While the author has made considerable effort to ensure that the information contained in this post is accurate, the author is not responsible for any errors or omissions, or for the results obtained from the use of this information.

All information contained in this post is provided ""as is"", with no guarantee of completeness, accuracy, timeliness or the results obtained from the use of the information, and without warranty of any kind, express or implied, including, but not limited to warranties of performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose or product safety of any kind.

In no event will the author, his or her related partnerships or corporations, or the partners, family members, agents, employees or employers thereof be liable to you or anyone else for any decision made or action taken in reliance on the information contained in this post, or for any indirect, consequential, special or similar damages including, without limitation, permanent loss of alcohol, physical or emotional sufferings, moral standard corruptions, damages for loss of goodwill or self-esteem, loss of home or still, breach of sobriety, permanent or temporary loss of employment, permanent or temporary loss of connectivity to the rest of the world, work stoppage, loss of income, home related fires or other mishaps, distilling failure or other malfunctions.

Now that"s out of the way, this is how I run in reflux. Bear with me on numbers I"m a metric guy, I start my run, get the temp up to 150f or so. The condenser should start to produce liquid, and then hold there till the first dripitty drips stop comming from the condenser, this should be all of the foreshots. I use a glass thermometer with a rubber bung and have notice that if the thermometer is inserted more or less than before on the last run in relations to the condenser output at the top of the stack, the boiling point per thermometer reading will change slightly. This will be some inaccuracy in temp reading.

Using the PSII HC in reflux mode, that"s all the collection that I would discard. I have proven this with my home test.

Using propane, I ever so slightly increase the heat and let the temp rise till the drip starts again at around 170f. My eyes have a hard time reading the decimal on the glass thermometer and remenber my numbers are not exact because it's not a perfect world.

This will give me a nice 182 proof natural with a 25oz bottle every hour for a total of four hours or so counting the 35 to 45 min 5 gal warm up, with my 15% wash.

The 184 and 185 proof are very hard for me to conceive but taking the temp down a bit like you asked will give you a better chance. 169 fahrenheit mybe too low but remenber you thermonter is inaccurate.

Remember that your collection coming out the condenser is cold and you will always get a lower reading on proofs, some of my proofs at 183 warm up to 184 or better after sitting at room temp.

In conclusion, the pros and cons of a lower temp than your 178f will give you better separation of alcohol. Keep in mind with some inaccuracy (master distiller this is not a perfect world), 150 to 158f will remove the somewhat guestionable drinkable methanol, then go to the next step at or around the 168 to172.4f for collection with the lowest possible temp to get your condenser to start to dripitty drip again, the slower the drip the higher the proof and less unwanted flavor.

Cons, in my little if any experience here, distilling time will double for the extra 1% to 2% in proof once you try to go above 182 to 183 proof collections.

My numbers on temps in the post are not taken from wikipedia but rather, from the real world using an inaccurate thermoneter in an uncontrollable environment. Use for reference only."
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Offline heeler  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, May 30, 2012 8:13:53 AM(UTC)
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Dude, you must really like to type cause with all that said you said ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, no offense intended. Confused
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Offline Bayou-Ruler  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, May 30, 2012 8:26:18 AM(UTC)
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No your post did not offended me nor have you, just a misunderstanding. More often than not I tend to come across blunt.

If you are a whiskey drinker then you always consume a little methanol and other Congeners. The Congeners are where the some of the flavor and the worst of the hangover comes from.

The methanol, among other things including ethanol are by products of yeast metabolism during the fermentation process.

The culprits with moonshine in the "old days" was the fact that the moonshiners were only out to make money they did not care about quality nor the health of the people who drank their shine. They would add everything from embalming fluid to chlorine bleach for kick and things such as iodine and tobacco spit for color just to name a few. This coupled with lead poisoning due to the lead solder used in the stills caused many people to be crippled, blind and, dead.

I personally don't drink. I distill ethanol for fuel use.
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Offline Bayou-Ruler  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, May 30, 2012 8:32:12 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: bigwheel Go to Quoted Post
Wow thats too cool on the antidote. Person poison and cure them self all in the same swallow. Great tutorial. Now lets speak of the proper operating temps for a reflux still. After your recommended reflux temp of 170 I have been trying to hold on 178 f. till the run is over. Would there be pros and cons as compared to pulling it off at lower temps..169 for example? Thanks.


Simple physics: Ethyl alcohol (95%), the azeotrope boils at 172.58 ºF at sea level.

Ethyl alcohol (100%) boils at 173.12 ºF at sea level

Anything lower and its not ethanol. Just remember to take into consideration the accuracy of your thermometer.
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Offline more than I can drink  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, May 30, 2012 8:36:23 AM(UTC)
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"
Quote:
Dude, you must really like to type cause with all that said you said ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, no offense intended.


Quote:
After your recommended reflux temp of 170 I have been trying to hold on 178 f. till the run is over. Would there be pros and cons as compared to pulling it off at lower temps. 169 for example? Thanks.



Heeler

There was a question asked and I did give a very long answer. I"m sure bigwheel does not need my help on the subject of temperature affecting the proof of his alcohol collection at the condenser, but I thought what the l-l ell.

A little shorter answer would be less unwanted flavor transfer and a higher alcohol content."
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Offline more than I can drink  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, May 30, 2012 8:42:07 AM(UTC)
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I gave the beginner hobbyist answer Bayou-ruler gave the master distiller answer.
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Offline Bayou-Ruler  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, May 30, 2012 8:48:38 AM(UTC)
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"
Originally Posted by: more than I can drink Go to Quoted Post
I gave the beginner hobbies answer Bayou-ruler gave the master distiller answer.


Well your disclaimer was more informative than your explanation."
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Offline Bayou-Ruler  
#11 Posted : Wednesday, May 30, 2012 3:20:14 PM(UTC)
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"
Originally Posted by: bigwheel Go to Quoted Post
Well thanks for all those good temps folks. Can I borrow the disclaimer? lol.


No doubt, the disclaimer was the most informative part of the whole post! lolOhMyGod"
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Offline badbill2  
#12 Posted : Thursday, May 31, 2012 1:53:44 AM(UTC)
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Wow bigwheel I feel stupider than before! That was almost like my 'Caroline Story" I don't get into too much of perfection, just good likker. I usually start out at about 170 and leave everything alone, dont mess with nothin and let the liquid do it's job and raise the temps as it pulls out the shine. Maybe if you want to steal the last little bit of crap, raise the heat right at the end to pull out what's left over? Seems to work fine for me, I'm not into too much calculations just results.
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Offline badbill2  
#13 Posted : Thursday, May 31, 2012 2:06:27 AM(UTC)
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I aint used to anyone agreein with me on this place. Usually start arguments. But thanks for the support!
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Offline more than I can drink  
#14 Posted : Thursday, May 31, 2012 3:06:32 AM(UTC)
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"
Quote:
I aint used to anyone agreein with me on this place. Usually start arguments.


badbill2

Disagreeing and people starting argument was the first thing I notice around here."
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