 Rank: Newbie Groups: Registered
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"I have been experimenting with different recipes and trying to hone in on what I am looking for. I usually do 6 gal mashes in order to test my recipe. However, I have noticed that the higher ABV of my mash, the less hearts I am able to get from the run. In order to remedy this I decided to do a stripping run, which yields about a gallon of alcohol. I then dilute this with water and do a spirit run. The problem is that from the gallon of alcohol I added to the latest batch, I was only able to collect about a quart of alcohol that was high enough proof to burn. I diluted the one gallon of alcolol with around 6 gallons of water, thinking that I would be able to get more hearts from the run.
Can someone please explain why I am having low hearts with high ABV runs?
Also, how much should I dilute a small spirit run for testing purposes as I mentioned?"
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 Rank: Senior Member Groups: Registered
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"Houndog,
It's not clear to me what you're asking.
What was the abv of your wash? If it was in the neighborhood of 10% then you would be starting out with somewhere around 2.4 L of ethanol, total. So if you ended up with 1 L after cuts, I'd say you're doing better than I would expect.
Your higher abv washes won't necessarily produce more hearts -- depending on practices, ingredients and yeast, you're higher abv washes might contain a much higher percentage of esters and fusel oils. Stripping, then diluting won't get rid of them (although you may cut down on the fusel oils somewhat, depending on how far down you take your stripping run). So diluting your strips won't make the undesirable stuff disappear -- they'll still come across when you do your spirit run.
You might have better results if you keep your wash abv lower and ferment at a lower temp. Then combine two or three stripping runs for your spirit run. This may reduce the bad stuff from the start ... and help spread things out a bit during your spirit run.
--JB"
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Rank: Senior Member Groups: Registered, Moderator
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"Houndog...what you are seeing is perfectly normal. Think about what you added to your still the first run???? the quantity of wash I mean.
You said..in order to remedy this I did a stripping run....with that stripping run you got more water not more ethanol and thats just how it is. When you strip you get more water cause your at a higher temp and it will of course push more water.
No prob yet....now then, thats where your spirit run comes into play, it to will leave behind more water as it slowly pulls of more ethanol out of the still. The reason we do a stripping run is to shed bulk amounts of water and then do a spirit run for the good stuff. If you did a spirit run and a stripping run with the same amount of wash the stripped run would be more volume because of the water involved. But it also leaves behind other things you dont want. Then a spirit run slowly pulls the good stuff out.
Try looking at it this way ---- in your fermenter is 6 gallons of liquid which is 10% ethanol. No matter what you do to it you are only gonna get a certain amount of DRINKABLE likker out of it. You'll still get foreshots,heads,hearts and tails.
I'm not sure burning hooch is the very best anyway. That just means higher proof. Does JD or JB or KC burn readily on a spoon??"
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Rank: Newbie Groups: Registered
Joined: 6/1/2012(UTC)
Posts: 4
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Thanks for the info! I was having a hard time understanding why higher ABV batches would produce less drinkable product. But the explanations you guys offered cleared that up for me. I have been using turbo yeasts with high gravity corn and sugar mash (1.080 to 1.100) and it seems that is not the best avenue. I think I will adjust my mash to 10% and try another yeast.
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Rank: Senior Member Groups: Registered
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"BTW: Are you actually mashing or just using the corn for flavoring you wash? I'm assuming that you're making sugarhead washes since you didn't mention using any malts. If that's the case and you're experimenting with various ways to add flavor, you might want to give the All Bran recipe a shot. It's very simple and I really liked it. If you give it a try, just make sure you boil those flakes until you get the hot break so your wash will clear a bit better before you toss it in the boiler.
Also, you're likely to get better results if you stop using turbo yeast. I use baker's yeast with the All Bran and Bird Watcher's recipes and things turn out just fine.
Best Regards,
--JB"
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Rank: Newbie Groups: Registered
Joined: 6/1/2012(UTC)
Posts: 4
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"I am mashing the cracked corn in the same way you would mash an all grain beer. I have a mash tun which I do 10 pounds of corn at 160F for an hour and then sparge with 170F. This has seemed to work out well because I can extract the sugars and do not have any solids in my fermenter. I am essentially using the mash for a base and using the sugar to boost the SG, which I recently learned that higher ABV is not helping me get more product.
I am trying to find a recipe that will give a good corn flavor with a little sweetness left over. I bought some EC1118 yesterday and plan to try some expreiments with it. I tried bakers yeast on my first experiment and it only fermented down from 1.040 to 1.030 and stuck."
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Rank: Senior Member Groups: Registered
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" Originally Posted by: Houndog  I am mashing the cracked corn in the same way you would mash an all grain beer.. What malt are you using? Are you malting your own corn? Are you using 2-row/6-row barley? If you're not using base grain(s) that provide the enzymes (or at least the powered stuff), you're not mashing. Originally Posted by: Houndog I am trying to find a recipe that will give a good corn flavor with a little sweetness left over. In that case, you may want to try UJSSM or Sweetfeed recipes. --JB"
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Rank: Senior Member Groups: Registered, Moderator
Joined: 7/25/2009(UTC)
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"ec 1118 will ferment whatever is fermentable. I should not leave any sweetness at all.
I like to keep the temp 65 to 70 if i can."
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Rank: Senior Member Groups: Registered, Moderator
Joined: 7/25/2009(UTC)
Posts: 2,209
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I was just thinking with the 1118 if you watch the SG. stop the fermentation at 1 instead of below 1. Stopping beer at 1 is one of the things that leaves flavor.
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Rank: Senior Member Groups: Registered
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"Hey Scotty,
Have you ever tried California yeast? This was recently recommended to me for neutrals ... the claim was that it produces very few esters. Which I suppose would make sense since the homebrew guys seem to like this for their IPAs."
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Rank: Guest
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Posts: 5,254
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I used distillers yeast on Bayou's tomato paste neutral and it tasted the most neutral of anything I ever drank. Rank it right up there in front of Stoli on the unoffensive scale..head an shoulders above that old nasty Smirnoff and Taaka. Now will admit I aint no conesewer..but cant imagine a different yeast making it taste any more neutral than the way it came out.
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Rank: Senior Member Groups: Registered, Moderator
Joined: 7/25/2009(UTC)
Posts: 2,209
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" Originally Posted by: John Barleycorn Hey Scotty,
Have you ever tried California yeast? This was recently recommended to me for neutrals ... the claim was that it produces very few esters. Which I suppose would make sense since the homebrew guys seem to like this for their IPAs. I have used 1118 for years on wine and neutrals. Slow fermenting is the key to not makinf off flavors. Every body has a favorite yeast, I like 1118 for win and neutral. and 1116 or 1122 for whiskey but again, slow cooler fermentation is always the key."
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Rank: Senior Member Groups: Registered, Moderator
Joined: 7/25/2009(UTC)
Posts: 2,209
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" Originally Posted by: bigwheel I used distillers yeast on Bayou's tomato paste neutral and it tasted the most neutral of anything I ever drank. Rank it right up there in front of Stoli on the unoffensive scale..head an shoulders above that old nasty Smirnoff and Taaka. Now will admit I aint no conesewer..but cant imagine a different yeast making it taste any more neutral than the way it came out. I am markering essence of water.  Wanna invest in the company????  $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ :)"
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Rank: Senior Member Groups: Registered
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" Originally Posted by: scotty I am markering essence of water And I have the a patent on the purest dehydrated water ... we should team up!"
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Rank: Guest
Groups: Guests
Joined: 2/10/2002(UTC)
Posts: 5,254
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Well they used to have canned water from the Army and Navy Surplus store back in the good old days. Leftovers from the Big War. You know they still serving green eggs and ham from that era? Must have been the predecessor to the Perrier yup water which the Frog Eating Frenchies dip out of the bidet and send over here. Im getting a little riled up over this situation. They call it Piddle Water over in Jolly Olde England. It come from the back of the toilet on that deal. Seen it on Sat nite live so it bound to be right.
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