 Rank: Newbie Groups: Registered
Joined: 6/24/2012(UTC)
Posts: 4
|
ok so I am a greenhorn at this only been doing shine about 3 weeks now. My question is,, what temp is too hot to blo off shine? I have done 4 batches now, and I cannot get my pot to blo at 180. It does not blo until the temp reaches at least 205 most times. I am getting good product but just cant get it at right temp. I am using 8 gallon pressure cooker, with about 25 foot of 3/8 copper thru my 50 gallon worm barrel. I add salt to increase boiling temp of water. I have also double checked it with another thermometer. I am mashing crushed corn, with correct amount of sugar and water and yeast, but have never been able to get above 1.010.
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 2/4/2012(UTC)
Posts: 303
|
I found that the copper line coming out of the boiler was condensing the vapor, allowing it to drip back into the boiler. When I insulated the copper line from the boiler to just before the drop into the worm barrel, I started getting output much sooner in the temperature curve (about 180 degrees). See http://homedistiller.org/equip/designs/make_pot for info in the Lyne arm and how it affects the flavor output. In my case (above), it affected it so much that I wasn't getting any output.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Senior Member Groups: Registered, Moderator
Joined: 4/14/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,666
Was thanked: 15 time(s) in 15 post(s)
|
"Peevy ... just a few things to think about, 25 ft of 3/8 copper might require lots of pressure ( which of course is applied heat) to push the vapor through. Make sure theres no way for liquid to settle in the coils - that would constitute a blockage..... I bet a shorter worm and maybe a bigger worm might work a little better. Next dont concentrate too much on temp -- use your drip or dribble more so for capturing your hooch. You did'nt say how much liquid was in your 8 gallon boiler. If it takes lots of heat then maybe try less volume, that might require less heat to begin vaporization of your ethanol. Good luck.  "
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Senior Member Groups: Registered, Moderator
Joined: 4/14/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,666
Was thanked: 15 time(s) in 15 post(s)
|
"Peevy, something else, not sure what you mean by --blo--I dont think you want it to blo the hooch out, just a drip or dribble is better..or maybe a little stream. You said you've been shinin now for three weeks and done 4 batches...did you start all 4 ferments at the same time?? It usually takes about 8-12 days to get through the ferment and settling phase of each wash. Did you make any cuts with any of those washes? Keep reading and learning and it'll come to you sooner or later.  "
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Newbie Groups: Registered
Joined: 6/24/2012(UTC)
Posts: 4
|
" Originally Posted by: heeler  Peevy, something else, not sure what you mean by --blo--I dont think you want it to blo the hooch out, just a drip or dribble is better..or maybe a little stream. You said you've been shinin now for three weeks and done 4 batches...did you start all 4 ferments at the same time?? It usually takes about 8-12 days to get through the ferment and settling phase of each wash. Did you make any cuts with any of those washes? Keep reading and learning and it'll come to you sooner or later. when i say blo, i am just refering to running it thru the pot, lol. and yes we started our mash before we constructed our still 2 55 gallon barrels."
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 2/4/2012(UTC)
Posts: 303
|
Originally Posted by: peevy we started our mash before we constructed our still 2 55 gallon barrels. Peevy, can you elaborate on what you mean by 2 55 gallon barrels? I can see one of them used for the worm, but what's the other one for?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Newbie Groups: Registered
Joined: 6/24/2012(UTC)
Posts: 4
|
I am using 2 55 gallon barrels for my fermentation of the mash
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
Groups: Guests
Joined: 2/10/2002(UTC)
Posts: 5,254
|
I knew what you meant on them barrels Bro. Now you are breaking the old hoocher's code of the West which say temp gauges and pot stills do not play well together. Adjust the heat up and down to get the output where you want it. Lose the gauge.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 2/4/2012(UTC)
Posts: 303
|
Originally Posted by: peevy I am mashing crushed corn, with correct amount of sugar and water and yeast, but have never been able to get above 1.010. OK, please give us the specifics of the recipe. How much of each ingredient, your process, etc. Thanks!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 2/4/2012(UTC)
Posts: 303
|
Originally Posted by: bigwheel which say temp gauges and pot stills do not play well together. I don't think they don't play well together, but more that after you're used to your stills operation, you might as well not use the temperature gauge. However, I like my temperature gauge. It still lets me know when the foreshot is about to appear and tails are about to show up.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Newbie Groups: Registered
Joined: 6/24/2012(UTC)
Posts: 4
|
i have noticed that when the temp starts rising the proof starts going down,, is this typical? I am still learning a lot doing this.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
Groups: Guests
Joined: 2/10/2002(UTC)
Posts: 5,254
|
Sounds typical. If the trail is followed to its logical conclusion there will be reached a point of no alchyhol at all then distilled water comes next. Think you got a good tip to insulate the output line. If your really getting some reflux action that would prevent it. That is why it aint a good plan for reflux stills. Now should theoretically give a more pure finished product if it were allowed to cycle a bit. Sorta like having a tiny thumper or something.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
Groups: Guests
Joined: 2/10/2002(UTC)
Posts: 5,254
|
"Ok..I cant resist looking at mine either..if that brings any comfort..lol. Originally Posted by: muadib2001 I don't think they don't play well together, but more that after you're used to your stills operation, you might as well not use the temperature gauge. However, I like my temperature gauge. It still lets me know when the foreshot is about to appear and tails are about to show up. "
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 2/4/2012(UTC)
Posts: 303
|
Originally Posted by: peevy i have noticed that when the temp starts rising the proof starts going down, is this typical? Yes. My pot still starts out about 60% ABV on the first jar and drops about 3-4% each jar thereafter. I'll start getting output at around 184-185 degrees. By the time the last jar is just around 40% ABV, the temperature in the boiler will be about 203 degrees. I don't care to chase the remaining alcohol in the boiler after that. It just seems like a waste of energy. So I get an average of about 50% ABV. So for my pot still, I figure that is pretty good. I know the refluxers would have words with me on that. I guess that's the nature of the beast (or pot still).
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
Groups: Guests
Joined: 2/10/2002(UTC)
Posts: 5,254
|
Well glad to hear my pot still run was about normal. All the non stinky stuff added together come out to 120 proof..whereas the reflux mode usually comes in at 170 and about the same volume of finished product. Was under the impression the pot still would return more but was not the case unless a person wanted to count the overly abundant stinky cloudy tails.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Senior Member Groups: Registered, Moderator
Joined: 4/14/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,666
Was thanked: 15 time(s) in 15 post(s)
|
" Originally Posted by: peevy ok so I am a greenhorn at this only been doing shine about 3 weeks now. My question is,, what temp is too hot to blo off shine? I have done 4 batches now, and I cannot get my pot to blo at 180. It does not blo until the temp reaches at least 205 most times. I am getting good product but just cant get it at right temp. I am using 8 gallon pressure cooker, with about 25 foot of 3/8 copper thru my 50 gallon worm barrel. I add salt to increase boiling temp of water. I have also double checked it with another thermometer. I am mashing crushed corn, with correct amount of sugar and water and yeast, but have never been able to get above 1.010. Something I just thought about...you said you had 2-55 gallon drums of wash and you are using a 8 gallon still!!!!! Damn I sure hope you like being married to your still!!! Its gonna be a long hot summer......  "
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 7/14/2012(UTC)
Posts: 217
|
" Originally Posted by: muadib2001 I don't think they don't play well together, but more that after you're used to your stills operation, you might as well not use the temperature gauge. However, I like my temperature gauge. It still lets me know when the foreshot is about to appear and tails are about to show up. Yepper, I like mine too maud. Although I am very comfy making the cuts, on those rare occassions when I have a really good wash I found it helps me to ride those tail end of the hearts a bit. Just me!!!!"
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/1/2012(UTC)
Posts: 198
|
" Originally Posted by: heeler Peevy ... just a few things to think about, 25 ft of 3/8 copper might require lots of pressure ( which of course is applied heat) to push the vapor through. Make sure theres no way for liquid to settle in the coils - that would constitute a blockage..... I bet a shorter worm and maybe a bigger worm might work a little better. Next dont concentrate too much on temp -- use your drip or dribble more so for capturing your hooch. You did'nt say how much liquid was in your 8 gallon boiler. If it takes lots of heat then maybe try less volume, that might require less heat to begin vaporization of your ethanol. Good luck. Pressure is actually defined as resistance to flow. It has nothing to do with heat. Heat creates vapour. Naturally if you have a resistance more vapour will create more pressure. If you have no resistance you can have all the heat you want and you will never see any pressure. There should be no measurable pressure in a pot still. If there is any it will be in boiler not the condensor since the condensor is acting as an orifice and bernoulli's principle tells us that when passing through an orifice there will be an increase in velocity and a loss of pressure. I've used 25' 3/8 worm for a long time. Pretty normal for a graham style condensor. You are absolutely right about the coils. They have to be a constant downward spiral or will pool and cause a little back pressure(theres that whole resistance to flow thing). You can usually tell if this is a problem because your condensed product will come out in spurts instead of a constant drip."
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Senior Member Groups: Registered, Moderator
Joined: 4/14/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,666
Was thanked: 15 time(s) in 15 post(s)
|
" Originally Posted by: ohyeahyeah Pressure is actually defined as resistance to flow. It has nothing to do with heat. Heat creates vapour. Naturally if you have a resistance more vapour will create more pressure. If you have no resistance you can have all the heat you want and you will never see any pressure. There should be no measurable pressure in a pot still. If there is any it will be in boiler not the condensor since the condensor is acting as an orifice and bernoulli's principle tells us that when passing through an orifice there will be an increase in velocity and a loss of pressure.
I've used 25' 3/8 worm for a long time. Pretty normal for a graham style condensor.
You are absolutely right about the coils. They have to be a constant downward spiral or will pool and cause a little back pressure(theres that whole resistance to flow thing). You can usually tell if this is a problem because your condensed product will come out in spurts instead of a constant drip. Oh yeah, I'm not saying your wrong about heat and or pressure in the exact definition, but when it comes to distillng heat is directly related to pressure! Please remember that a post remains here forever and a newbie may find this in the future and misunderstand what is ment by ---heat wont make pressure -- when in fact heat in a boiler when distilling is directly related to pressure. I saw a pic of steam blowing out a condenser tube in another thread whilst the owner was doing a cleaning run -- that was high heat and high pressure--, thats why it was blowing out the tube. Again I'm not trying to start a fight or a contraversy but if you put a lid on a boiling pot and seal it so no vapours escape and put it on high heat will you NOT get a heat and pressure buildup...of course you will. Again the knowledge and theory you speak of are correct I'm sure, I cant argue the information but the delivery may need tweaking. Now this is just my way of passing on useable info for the future stillers that may not understand the boiling pot/high heat/high pressure buildup."
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Senior Member Groups: Registered, Moderator
Joined: 4/14/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,666
Was thanked: 15 time(s) in 15 post(s)
|
"One more thought sorry..if you have a pot still and you add a 2 inch column to it, and in this senerio add a 1/4"" ID condenser tube as compared to a 1/2"" ID condenser tube would it not build up pressure behind the smaller tube with the same amount of applied heat?? Of course it would.
If we want more flow out of our condenser tube would we not turn up the fire or heat source as it were??? Of course we would.
Just putting some more thinking out there to ponder."
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.
