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"Hey John and Scotty, figured I would move this topic to a new thread as it seems important enough to have it's own home.
I'm useing a Blichmann propane burner and after the boil starts I turn the flame down to where if I turn it down any more it will go out. The condenser water is a moot point as it has to have enough water to condense the vapor and has no bearing on the tower temp. I also use a remote thermometer with the prob tip at the same level as the exiting vapor path. That way I know exactly what the temp of the exiting vapor is. As far as the temps of the different layers in the tower are concerned I don't need to know that. If the reflux is heald long enough to stabilize the head temp then the layers in the tower will be stable and at the temps they need to be at.
From the point I turn the burner down I control the tower temp with the tower condenseing tubes as I can't go any lower with my flame. I can bring the tower into a total reflux at about 155 to 160 degrees by controlling the water flow and then after it has refluxed for 1/2 hour to 1 hour I will cut back on my tower water flow to raise the temp into the 165 to 170 degree range and star collecting the for shots and heads.
When the exit flow begins to slow down I will decrase the tower water flow again to bring the temp up to 172 to 176 degrees and start collecting the good stuff.
When the temp rises up to 184 degrees I will turn my heat up a little to increase the exit flow to a steady stream and collect my tails hard and fast until they start stinking. Which seems to be right about when the juice starts to get cloudy.
My ABV on the hearts runs about 90 to 92%. Ive never measured the tails or the heads.
In conclusion I guess my point is I think that it's necessary to utilize both heat and water to get the best run possible. Neither one nor the other is more important.
I'd like to hear what you think about my ramblings.
Have Fun."
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Rank: Senior Member Groups: Registered, Moderator
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You still should not be over driving the heat to the boiler. That why some of us have gone to electric. Electric is no where as quick as propane for heat up but during the actual distilling you may be effecting head temp with the water but the heat to the is what is causing alcohol to evaporate .
We are not suposed to mess with head temperature. The diferent % of alcohol does that automatically.
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Rank: Senior Member Groups: Registered
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Your right about the heat causing the evaporation and I don't over drive the burner, head to many horror stories about melting the diffuser plate.. But unless your running a Pot Still I believe it necessary to use water to control tower temps and maintain reflux for a period of time in order to stabilize the layering in the tower before starting to take off any vapor.
Is'nt that the ability that makes the difference between pot and reflux?
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You three should think about getting a room.
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Originally Posted by: bigwheel  You three should think about getting a room. ...said the man who is unclear on the concept.
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Originally Posted by: Bushy Your right about the heat causing the evaporation and I don't over drive the burner, head to many horror stories about melting the diffuser plate.. But unless your running a Pot Still I believe it necessary to use water to control tower temps and maintain reflux for a period of time in order to stabilize the layering in the tower before starting to take off any vapor.
Is'nt that the ability that makes the difference between pot and reflux? Exactly how I do it. I couldn't get higher than 89% ABV or so and an old hand here explained it to me (Ratflinger) ; my best has been 94%
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I just try to humor them a bit..lol.
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" Originally Posted by: Bushy In conclusion I guess my point is I think that it's necessary to utilize both heat and water to get the best run possible. Neither one nor the other is more important. Bushy, I think we're all in agreement on this ... maybe just looking at things from slightly different angles I've been running my rig much like you do (but with electric) and I've been pleased with the results. I think the key thing is that we need to let the column do it's job -- reflux with good separation. I'm completely convinced that It's possible to drive the column hard enough that it interferes with both. With enough tinkering, I managed to put the reins on the power. I haven't found the sweet spot yet ... but I'm getting pretty close. :) Regards, --JB"
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Rank: Senior Member Groups: Registered
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Hey Jb, your right about to much heat. it's pretty easy to tell if your running to hot because your hearts don't have that clean smell/taste. They smell and taste like the heads/tails have been smeared across the hearts.
I take it your learning where to set your router controller for certain heat levels. Sounds kind of like getting used to propane but at least I can see my flame.
Have Fun.
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Originally Posted by: Bushy I take it your learning where to set your router controller for certain heat levels. Sounds kind of like getting used to propane but at least I can see my flame. Yes. The low-end triac/SCR based controllers are ... well ... low-end. They're very non-linear and apparently can have some triggering issues when used with highly inductive loads (like a hotplate). The first problem I had to deal with was at the max power setting -- it was no where near full power. So once I cut in power control (even at the max setting), the power would drop significantly and I couldn't drive the column hard enough to maintain output. The solution was to start with higher abv charges and insulate the boiler. I went from a 25% charge up to 35% - 40% and used some old _cotton_ towels secured around the top half of the boiler as insulation. A handy note about using towels: some towels have synthetic materials that can melt. If you've ever put a match to the end of a frayed shoelace you know what I'm talking about. You can do the same with old towels -- cut off a few threads and hold a match to them. You'll just get ash from the cotton ones ... almost like some graphite powder when you rub it between your fingers. The synthetic stuff will be like a black ball of glue. Anyway, I still don't have the dial completely mapped out yet. If I can find a variac at a reasonable price, I'll retire the RSC in a heartbeat. --JB
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Did you try the KISS approach which means plugging the hot plate into the wall socket and leaving the RSC out of the loop? That works wonderful for refluxing. I forget now is you a pot man? Sure got to have the crazy gizmo for that task. Anybody seen mods to keep the cheap triacs cooled down? I got some which I will reveal to a worthy person for only five bucks. Actually the info is free the five bucks is shipping and handling. Let me know. Thanks.
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Originally Posted by: Bushy it's pretty easy to tell if your running to hot because your hearts don't have that clean smell/taste. They smell and taste like the heads/tails have been smeared across the hearts. BTW: That's exactly what was happening -- not with tails, but definitely with heads. Half way through the run I was still smelling/tasting the esters.
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Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Registered
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Maybe I am in the wrong thread here but Bushy brought up heart/smell/and taste. I am only running a pot that so far has worked like a dream for me. My last fermit started at 1.08 and has ended at .980. I have ran 2 pots and notice a diff taste and smell from it. Almost like an oil........I ahve let it air for 2 days and the taste is still there. What do you heavy hitters thik? Is it my wash or am I running too hard? I am using an 850w plate on a 11 qts of wash and I put it on high and let it stay. I am really kinda confused on this one since I have not had this to happen in the pass. Any sugestions?
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Hey Bro sounds like you need to bypass the internal thermostat on the hotplate and add a RSC. Not sure pot stilling on a fixed heat source be a good plan...and not sure the thermostat offers enough precise control since it tends to cycle on and off too much. With a pot still the only control mechanism available is the heat. If you dont have some control over that could see some issues arising. Sounds like your wash is great. Wish mine would act nice like that.
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Originally Posted by: fatboylo I am only running a pot <snip> notice a diff taste and smell from it. Almost like an oil <snip> I put it on high and let it stay. Sounds like tails? You might be smearing your tails into your hearts ... which will happen if you run too hard/fast. When I strip, I go as hard/fast as I can ... everything but fores goes in the low wines jug and it smells awful. There's something about tails that really disgusts me. I tried some Bacardi neat last weekend -- I thought it was terrible. I guess I just have a sensitivity to tails or something. If you don't like what you have ... dilute it, throw it back in and try running slow and low to see if you get better results. --JB
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Hey Fats..what kinda stream you getting out of that puppy? The Mentor tole me to juggle the heat up or down to maintain a flow the size of a pencil lead. On my "one" real pot run it was closer to a fast drip and the heat control didnt need to move anywhere but down. This was a one run scenario..cuz I am way too busy to bother with doing it twice. It only come out at 120 but tasted real good. Quite a bit more heads and a bunch of tails not normally found when refluxing. If yours is coming out fast for a while..then slow for a while..then stop for a while..that is mostly a clue the thermostat is doing what it supposed to be doing and it getting all mixed up with the heads winding up in the tail section etc Or that sounds somewhat plausible dont it? Now if its coming out right..I take all this back of course..lol.
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Originally Posted by: bigwheel Hey Fats..what kinda stream you getting out of that puppy? The Mentor tole me to juggle the heat up or down to maintain a flow the size of a pencil lead. On my "one" real pot run it was closer to a fast drip and the heat control didnt need to move anywhere but down. This was a one run scenario..cuz I am way too busy to bother with doing it twice. It only come out at 120 but tasted real good. Quite a bit more heads and a bunch of tails not normally found when refluxing. If yours is coming out fast for a while..then slow for a while..then stop for a while..that is mostly a clue the thermostat is doing what it supposed to be doing and it getting all mixed up with the heads winding up in the tail section etc Or that sounds somewhat plausible dont it? Now if its coming out right..I take all this back of course..lol. Nope I have a pretty good consistant pencil lead size stream, just that ever now and again just once looks like what seems to be 10-15 drops all at once then back to the stream. I have my plate on high and just leave it there. When I built this little Mars rover, I figger I must have just had shit luck and sized the plate right for the pot and lenght of column. I have a 2 foot column at a 45 degree angle and a 20 inch jacketed condensor. It has ran the same every run.......Scratching my head?????? But damn proud of'er...... Got a pic of'er on my profile.
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