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Offline heeler  
#1 Posted : Friday, August 10, 2012 2:46:00 AM(UTC)
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Temperature control is very important during fermentation, too hot and the yeast dies and too cool it goes to sleep. Yeast is a living organizm and will die if stressed one way or the other. Ideally we want it to be happy and comfy so it will make as much etoh as possible. You'll find that lower temps during fermentation will creat less volitiles that we dont want anyway. And warmer temps help it finish faster -- but the catch is lower temps take longer to finish and warmer temps creat lots more fusel oils (you know greasy tails and aldehydes). Its always better to keep your fermentations on the cooler side with whichever yeast you choose.
Offline scotty  
#2 Posted : Friday, August 10, 2012 4:50:03 AM(UTC)
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Offline yurmo  
#3 Posted : Saturday, August 11, 2012 12:46:01 AM(UTC)
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I thought I read some where that once you get above 90F you incourage the growth of bacteria which can cause real problems.
Offline scotty  
#4 Posted : Saturday, August 11, 2012 1:37:22 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: yurmo Go to Quoted Post
I thought I read some where that once you get above 90F you incourage the growth of bacteria which can cause real problems.


Hi yurmo. First is that a sweedish name??

Yeast does not like warmer temperatures. The higher the temp the faster it ferments and the more off flavors are produced.
Bread yeast will tolerate much more heat than our wine or whiskey yeasts before dying.

Bacteria growth is definitle promoted some of at the warm temperatures.
This is why the masters tell us to quickly cool the liquid to pitching temperatures.
Offline admin  
#5 Posted : Saturday, August 11, 2012 3:03:09 AM(UTC)
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A lot depends on the strain of yeast being used. Some will die at around 80F and others are quite happy at 90-95F. As for bacteria, you should always sanitize your equipment before starting a wash, but most brewing strains are stronger, and will do a good job at fighting off wild yeast and bacteria (within reason). This is another advantage to a good turbo yeast- the pitch rate is much higher so there is much less time spent in the lag phase, so less time for any wild yeast or bacteria to build up.
Offline yurmo  
#6 Posted : Saturday, August 11, 2012 8:21:47 AM(UTC)
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Scotty,

There was a tv murder mystery which had a show with a mechanic named yurmo hill ( and yes he was the killer). The next day when I went to work at the auto shop I made the mistake of saying maybe one day I could be as famous as yurmo hill and from that day until I went to work elsewhere my name was yurmo hill. I just use it today as a pen name.
Offline scotty  
#7 Posted : Saturday, August 11, 2012 9:51:10 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: yurmo Go to Quoted Post
Scotty,

There was a tv murder mystery which had a show with a mechanic named yurmo hill ( and yes he was the killer). The next day when I went to work at the auto shop I made the mistake of saying maybe one day I could be as famous as yurmo hill and from that day until I went to work elsewhere my name was yurmo hill. I just use it today as a pen name.


OK thanks :)
Offline Swill-Billy  
#8 Posted : Saturday, August 11, 2012 10:35:41 PM(UTC)
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"Hey, guys. In years past i've hung up my siphoning hose when the ambient temps cool off in about September as i've historically just let my mash ferment in my garage at whatever temps occur in the largely unconditioned space. But this year i'm thinking i want to keep the hooch going in the cool weather. I'm in the southeast where it usually stays about 30-40F in the winter. But it will stay about 50-60F in the garage. I'm thinking about using an aquarium heater in the mash to keep it at optimum temps. You guys make winter hooch? How do you keep it warm?
Thanks."
Offline scotty  
#9 Posted : Sunday, August 12, 2012 1:43:21 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Swill-Billy Go to Quoted Post
Hey, guys. In years past i've hung up my siphoning hose when the ambient temps cool off in about September as i've historically just let my mash ferment in my garage at whatever temps occur in the largely unconditioned space. But this year i'm thinking i want to keep the hooch going in the cool weather. I'm in the southeast where it usually stays about 30-40F in the winter. But it will stay about 50-60F in the garage. I'm thinking about using an aquarium heater in the mash to keep it at optimum temps. You guys make winter hooch? How do you keep it warm?
Thanks.


I use a small electric blanket under the fermenter and a brew belt wrapped around it. Also a thermowell stuck into the liquid and a ranco control set at 65 to control the applied voltage. This setup seems to maintain the temperature. The sensor from the ranco is slid into the thermowell. I'm not fond of the aquarium heater but its just a feeling. I never tried one.
Offline John Barleycorn  
#10 Posted : Sunday, August 12, 2012 4:04:34 AM(UTC)
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"
Originally Posted by: Swill-Billy Go to Quoted Post
I'm thinking about using an aquarium heater in the mash to keep it at optimum temps.
I use an aquarium heater during the cold months and it works great. There are a few things I learned though:

-- Get one that can be used in a salt water aquarium -- they're supposed to hold up better.

-- Make sure you keep it clean. They tend to have a bunch of these little nooks & crannies where infectious stuff can grow especially where the cord enters the heater casing. You can cut & cap one end of a piece of PVC tubing that's big enough to hold the heater. Then fill it with Star San or something like that to give it a nice bath before dropping it in your fermenting bucket.

-- The cord is a PITA. If it breaks the seal, an airlock is almost useless. All the CO2 will slip out where the cord comes through. So if you like to see bubbling, you'll need to put a hole in the lid of your bucket along with an appropriate grommet/seal.

-- Resist the temptation to keep things too warm. If you keep your wash nice and cozy warm, you'll see things take off like a rocket after you pitch. I was keeping the temperature at 30 C when using baker's yeast. It was awesome to watch! It would be bone dry in 4 - 5 days. But I was plagued with excess esters and fusels. The last time I used the heater this spring, I set it just under 20 C. It took twice as long but everything was much cleaner.

That said, this winter I'm going to try some lager yeast strains and see how they do before I go back to the aquarium heater. :)

--JB"
Offline Swill-Billy  
#11 Posted : Sunday, August 12, 2012 6:51:16 AM(UTC)
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Great info. Thanks a bunch!
Offline heeler  
#12 Posted : Wednesday, September 05, 2012 6:41:21 AM(UTC)
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Another note on ferm temp...remember that fermentation is a --anarobic action-- which means it creats heat, just like rust. Of course you wont feel rust heating but you can surely feel your fermenter get and stay warm unless its in your barn and its 99F outside then you might not notice a difference. After the first few days and all the multiplying and the yeast have slowed a bit it will take on whatever ambient temp is avaliable and and then get to makeing hooch.
Offline Mkjt88  
#13 Posted : Wednesday, September 05, 2012 11:39:24 AM(UTC)
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Quick question.. the fermenting takes longer in cool weather but how cool is to cool? When does the cold harm the process besides just making it slower?
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#14 Posted : Wednesday, September 05, 2012 12:57:10 PM(UTC)
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I have formulated an opinywawn that it can't be anything but slowed down a bit from cold or hot. It still alive till it hit 140-150 which about the same time frame in which enzymes die..or become denatured depending on which nut head a person might choose to consult.
Offline heeler  
#15 Posted : Wednesday, September 05, 2012 1:06:20 PM(UTC)
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"
Originally Posted by: Mkjt88 Go to Quoted Post
Quick question.. the fermenting takes longer in cool weather but how cool is to cool? When does the cold harm the process besides just making it slower?


Ya know I dont think the manufactures actually specify the bottom of the temp scale. The warmer it gets the more nasties it creats but this wont happen at lower temps, it just gets sleepy until it warms up again. Now what exact temp is too hot, well I'm not really sure.... some of the yeast packs tell what temp is best but lots of folks have experimented and discovered that the upper level of the recomendations are always too hot."
Offline heeler  
#16 Posted : Wednesday, September 05, 2012 1:10:12 PM(UTC)
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ya know someone posted a --off flavor guideline--- I bet that gives temps for the creation of each compound ????
Offline Mkjt88  
#17 Posted : Thursday, September 06, 2012 5:47:28 AM(UTC)
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I actually read through that yesterday.. you know I think I'm just simply being to crazy with it.. I want perfect temps for the best outcome lol.. But all in all as long as I leave it under 90 and over 60 I think I'll be just fine.
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#18 Posted : Thursday, September 06, 2012 9:02:47 AM(UTC)
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Well I was not a temp snob till starting to hang around these folks. Left many a bucket of wine fermenting in the uncooled play house during the hot summer when it was 110 in the shade...with no issues noted that could be considered heat related. Now I am squandering all my pension money to pay high electric bills to keep the mancave at 78. I aint going through this nonsense next year. The fermenters will be cleaned and stored by the middle to end of June. This is going to be a cool weather hobby like hawg killing etc.
Offline John Barleycorn  
#19 Posted : Thursday, September 06, 2012 3:57:04 PM(UTC)
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"
Originally Posted by: heeler Go to Quoted Post
ya know someone posted a --off flavor guideline--- I bet that gives temps for the creation of each compound ????
As far as the effect of temperature on congener production goes ... that will depend on the specific yeast strain you're using. I've only been able to find a couple of papers on the subject, and they use baker's yeast as the basis of their testing. The one common theme however is what you already mentioned in an earlier post: higher temps bring out the nasties.

I've been collecting information on a bunch of yeast products from various suppliers ... I never realized how many products are out there! Most of them provide ""recommended"" temperature ranges along with basic flavor profiles. I'll try to pull it all together and post it when I get some free time.

--JB"
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