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Offline Josh  
#1 Posted : Friday, September 21, 2012 7:41:24 AM(UTC)
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"I made a mash, 5 lbs sugar & 3 gallons of water & whole corn (About 4 inches of corn in a 5 gallon bucket). I used RedStar dry yeast from Walmart. Is that something to use, or is there something else? The mash fermented for 5 days (The recipe called for that). Obviously fermentation times can vary. At the end of the fermentation, the mash was cloudy, almost a milky color. Not sure if this is normal. It smelled like alcohol. So is there anything I should have done differently?

Distillation: My still is a 12Qt stainless steel pot, with a copper coil in a 5 gallon bucket with cold water.

First run, it took about 75 mins to get the mash up to 173 degrees. I noticed no dripping between 140-170. Once is was past 180, I got about a table spoon of shine. It had a yellow tint, and smelled kinda funky. Almost like rubbing alcohol but with a weird scent. I ran it for about 3 hours, and that's all I got. What am I doing wrong here?

Anything is appreciated. Tongue"
Offline scotty  
#2 Posted : Friday, September 21, 2012 11:04:12 AM(UTC)
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it doesnt sound like you had any conversion to start with. Hydrometer readings tell all.
Offline Josh  
#3 Posted : Friday, September 21, 2012 11:17:02 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: scotty Go to Quoted Post
it doesnt sound like you had any conversion to start with. Hydrometer readings tell all.


So pretty much there was nothing to boil off? I'll grab a hydrometer, and what should it read?"
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#4 Posted : Friday, September 21, 2012 11:33:44 AM(UTC)
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Hmmm..lot of variables here. First off what you had there aint a mash but a wash aka corn flavored sugar wash. Thinking that is excess corn for that size of bucket. Not much room to add water to form the liquid constituents and make the sugar act right. Corn prob add a little flavor but dont take near that much. Also too much sugar for bread yeast to handle mainly since you aint got much room to add water. Now how a person come out with only a Tablespoon of stinky hooch I aint quite sure. If the sugar and yeast had got along would think you would get more than that. Did you cook it? What was the pitching temps? Bread yeast is real heat tolerant..but it can be over stretched for the exuberant. Best strategy would be to follow a proven recipe to the letter and see what happens. UJSM is a favorite of a lot of folks. Take care and keeps us posted. Thanks.
Offline Josh  
#5 Posted : Friday, September 21, 2012 12:14:47 PM(UTC)
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"
Originally Posted by: bigwheel Go to Quoted Post
Hmmm..lot of variables here. First off what you had there aint a mash but a wash aka corn flavored sugar wash. Thinking that is excess corn for that size of bucket. Not much room to add water to form the liquid constituents and make the sugar act right. Corn prob add a little flavor but dont take near that much. Also too much sugar for bread yeast to handle mainly since you aint got much room to add water. Now how a person come out with only a Tablespoon of stinky hooch I aint quite sure. If the sugar and yeast had got along would think you would get more than that. Did you cook it? What was the pitching temps? Bread yeast is real heat tolerant..but it can be over stretched for the exuberant. Best strategy would be to follow a proven recipe to the letter and see what happens. UJSM is a favorite of a lot of folks. Take care and keeps us posted. Thanks.


Alright, i'll won't use a much corn. Is there any other kind of yeast that is readily available and is a better product? Sorry, i'm kind of new to this. So by cook, you mean cook yeast/sugar or something like that? By pitching you mean adding the yeast? Correct me if i'm wrong. I added the yeast when the water was about 31-32C. Thanks."
Offline heeler  
#6 Posted : Friday, September 21, 2012 11:17:38 PM(UTC)
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Josh, do your self a favor and re-read the recipe section before you attempt another wash. Not tryingto be rude but you wasted time and money by not following a recipe. The layout is lacking in a few things --- with just sugar and water the yeast will suffer untils its death which wont take long. There was nothing there for conversion of the starches to sugars and from sugars to ethanol. I think I saw you ask should I boil the yeast???? NO!!!!! If you did that then thats why it did nothing. Anyway its not the end of the world this is a learning process so keep reading and learning and you will make a drinkable product.
Offline heeler  
#7 Posted : Friday, September 21, 2012 11:32:20 PM(UTC)
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"Josh, try a really easy recipe to build your confidence, like sugar/water with enzymes and nutrients or maybe the babyfood recipe in the recipe section. These are really easy to get supplies for. That bread yeast you mentioned will work just fine when used with the correct ingrediants and the wash preparred in the proper fashion.
You mentioned yellow color to your distillate -- think back --how hard did you boil the wash???? It sounds like you really put the heat to it. But with that much corn well maybe thats just whats gonna happen. Again just like BW said -- lots af variables to this question and there could be lots of reasons these things happened to you. Dont give up or get offended by statements made all these folks want to help you learn."
Offline Josh  
#8 Posted : Saturday, September 22, 2012 3:26:19 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: heeler Go to Quoted Post
Josh, try a really easy recipe to build your confidence, like sugar/water with enzymes and nutrients or maybe the babyfood recipe in the recipe section. These are really easy to get supplies for. That bread yeast you mentioned will work just fine when used with the correct ingrediants and the wash preparred in the proper fashion.
You mentioned yellow color to your distillate -- think back --how hard did you boil the wash???? It sounds like you really put the heat to it. But with that much corn well maybe thats just whats gonna happen. Again just like BW said -- lots af variables to this question and there could be lots of reasons these things happened to you. Dont give up or get offended by statements made all these folks want to help you learn.


Well, the is all the recipe said.

4 inches of corn in the bottom of a 5 gallon bucket.
3 gallons of water.
5 lbs sugar.

Add corn & sugar in a bucket and pour in boiling water, when the water cools down to proper temps add yeast.
Then let sit for 5 day to ferment & stir halfway through.

I didn't boil the yeast, lol. I thought that's what he meant. I'm not used to all these technical terms yet.

That's what I did, I guess I could have killed the yeast.
So, 173-190 for hour and a half is too hot? What should I run at?
I'll go ahead and try another recipe and follow it as close as I can.

I'll keep going, thanks for your help, anything and everything is appreciated.
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#9 Posted : Saturday, September 22, 2012 4:20:56 AM(UTC)
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Well it sounds fairly rational to me. Not sure where this choo choo jumped the tracks:) We sure the yeast was good and viable etc. Wasnt laying around in Granny's pantry for 20 years or something like that hopefully. Have you studied up on Heeler's plan to get the yeast rehydrated and boosted in numbers before adding to the wash? Great strategy in my book.
Offline Josh  
#10 Posted : Saturday, September 22, 2012 6:02:49 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: bigwheel Go to Quoted Post
Well it sounds fairly rational to me. Not sure where this choo choo jumped the tracks:) We sure the yeast was good and viable etc. Wasnt laying around in Granny's pantry for 20 years or something like that hopefully. Have you studied up on Heeler's plan to get the yeast rehydrated and boosted in numbers before adding to the wash? Great strategy in my book.


I've been reading on the baby food recipe. It seems fairly straight forward. I have studied that. Correct me if i'm wrong: Basically you take a boiled water, pour it into a jar, cover with saran wrap and let cool below 100F, then add the yeast, cover back up, let sit for 15 min (No stirring) then stir it, cover and let sit for 15 more minutes, then pour into the mash/wash.

The proper temp to pour the re-hydrated yeast into the mash/wash is 70-80F right?"
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#11 Posted : Saturday, September 22, 2012 6:36:00 AM(UTC)
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Sounds logical on the baby food thing. The variant I have adopted is thusly. Scoop out about a pint of wash in quart jar and pitch the yeast into that after adding enough ice water to bring it in range. Let it set while the main wash cools off. I am fixing to start giving this an extry day to set next time..due to some updated advice from Heeler. The low end of the pitching temps mentioned sound a bit coolish to me. My distillers yeast say it can take up to 97f. and I know the bread yeast can go into the low hundreds and be OK..want to say 106 or 103 somewhere in there. Cold wash really slow down the growing. Coulda been your yeast didnt have time to work yet. If you maintained close to 70 for five days after pitching..I betcha a buck that was the issue. It just needed more time or more heat. Now if you was closer to 80 that should be about ideal to split the difference. I try to maintain 78 room temp and dont bother to check the wash temp which always feelers cooler to the touch. Might be 70 down in there. Who knows? If the wash has worked it should not taste real sweet to the tongue and should not be actively working..bubbling etc. The gauge thing comes in real handy to confirm your other clues as to whether it is ready to run. Now are we sure we are working the still right? Lot of variables here..lol.
Offline Josh  
#12 Posted : Saturday, September 22, 2012 7:23:48 AM(UTC)
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"
Originally Posted by: bigwheel Go to Quoted Post
Sounds logical on the baby food thing. The variant I have adopted is thusly. Scoop out about a pint of wash in quart jar and pitch the yeast into that after adding enough ice water to bring it in range. Let it set while the main wash cools off. I am fixing to start giving this an extry day to set next time..due to some updated advice from Heeler. The low end of the pitching temps mentioned sound a bit coolish to me. My distillers yeast say it can take up to 97f. and I know the bread yeast can go into the low hundreds and be OK..want to say 106 or 103 somewhere in there. Cold wash really slow down the growing. Coulda been your yeast didnt have time to work yet. If you maintained close to 70 for five days after pitching..I betcha a buck that was the issue. It just needed more time or more heat. Now if you was closer to 80 that should be about ideal to split the difference. I try to maintain 78 room temp and dont bother to check the wash temp which always feelers cooler to the touch. Might be 70 down in there. Who knows? If the wash has worked it should not taste real sweet to the tongue and should not be actively working..bubbling etc. The gauge thing comes in real handy to confirm your other clues as to whether it is ready to run. Now are we sure we are working the still right? Lot of variables here..lol.


Alright, so throw the yeast into the jar at about 100F. I think my basement stays around 75ish. It can vary pretty rapidly though. Any ways you recommend to keep it a little warmer?
The last wash I had didn't taste sweet, it was almost bitter. But i'm going to try that baby food recipe and see how that goes. And from what I can tell, i'm using the still right. It's a simple process, but I guess I could be. Who knows. There is a lot of variables, almost confusing. Any advise on distilling and monitoring the wash?"
Offline scotty  
#13 Posted : Saturday, September 22, 2012 9:18:10 AM(UTC)
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Josh, your basement temperature is perfect for fermenting and not producing off flavors.
Offline Josh  
#14 Posted : Saturday, September 22, 2012 10:41:46 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: scotty Go to Quoted Post
Josh, your basement temperature is perfect for fermenting and not producing off flavors.


Hopefully it doesn't cool off this winter Tongue"
Offline scotty  
#15 Posted : Saturday, September 22, 2012 11:27:42 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Josh Go to Quoted Post
Hopefully it doesn't cool off this winter Tongue


If it does, use a brewbelt and a small heating pad-- control both of them with a thermowell and a ranco control. I think we get the cleanest washes when they are fermanted between 65 and 70 deg F.
Offline heeler  
#16 Posted : Saturday, September 22, 2012 8:39:22 PM(UTC)
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"
Originally Posted by: Josh Go to Quoted Post
Alright, so throw the yeast into the jar at about 100F. I think my basement stays around 75ish. It can vary pretty rapidly though. Any ways you recommend to keep it a little warmer?
The last wash I had didn't taste sweet, it was almost bitter. But i'm going to try that baby food recipe and see how that goes. And from what I can tell, i'm using the still right. It's a simple process, but I guess I could be. Who knows. There is a lot of variables, almost confusing. Any advise on distilling and monitoring the wash?


Just to add a little more clarity...make your wash, which ever you choose. After its done and its cooling dip out a pint or so ---- add ice to that to cool it down to 100F or so (cooler not hotter) then add your yeast (whichever you choose) give it alittle stir and wait. You will see it grow if its viable, it only takes about 1.5-2 hours to re-hydrate and you will know its done and ready to add to your wash when the big foam head (krausen head is the proper term) starts to fall.
Now if your wash is not cooled below 90F there are many ways to cool it down, pick one and go with it. Cool your wash before you add the newly hydrated yeast jug. The temp is important cause you dont want to kill your yeast by adding it when your wash is tooo hot.
After you add your new yeast jug givera good stir and put a airtight lid on it and add your airlock. And the temp you mentioned in your basement is perfect for fermentation. Nice happy yeast makes good likker. Good luck and happy stillin."
Offline Josh  
#17 Posted : Sunday, September 23, 2012 5:32:06 AM(UTC)
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"
Originally Posted by: heeler Go to Quoted Post
Just to add a little more clarity...make your wash, which ever you choose. After its done and its cooling dip out a pint or so ---- add ice to that to cool it down to 100F or so (cooler not hotter) then add your yeast (whichever you choose) give it alittle stir and wait. You will see it grow if its viable, it only takes about 1.5-2 hours to re-hydrate and you will know its done and ready to add to your wash when the big foam head (krausen head is the proper term) starts to fall.
Now if your wash is not cooled below 90F there are many ways to cool it down, pick one and go with it. Cool your wash before you add the newly hydrated yeast jug. The temp is important cause you dont want to kill your yeast by adding it when your wash is tooo hot.
After you add your new yeast jug givera good stir and put a airtight lid on it and add your airlock. And the temp you mentioned in your basement is perfect for fermentation. Nice happy yeast makes good likker. Good luck and happy stillin.


Alright, i'll give it a try. I'll let you know how it goes, thanks for the advice!"
Offline Josh  
#18 Posted : Monday, October 01, 2012 8:57:40 AM(UTC)
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Well, I had an extra batch of the corn mix fermenting, I let it sit for 2 weeks. I just ran it a few hours ago. Turned out way better than the last batch. I didn't get much, but I my cooling tube is messed up. So I gotta fix that. But the product that I did get, burned blue.
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#19 Posted : Monday, October 01, 2012 9:15:30 AM(UTC)
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Well congrats. Not sure the burning color is much of an indicator. Some say its an old wifes tale. I lit off a few batches but couldnt tell much. Some of it was burning invisible and stuff like that. Nose is your best pal in my book.
Offline Josh  
#20 Posted : Monday, October 01, 2012 11:25:19 AM(UTC)
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"
Originally Posted by: bigwheel Go to Quoted Post
Well congrats. Not sure the burning color is much of an indicator. Some say its an old wifes tale. I lit off a few batches but couldnt tell much. Some of it was burning invisible and stuff like that. Nose is your best pal in my book.


Yeah, I was told if it burns blue, you got a high proof. So what should it smell like then?"
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