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#1 Posted : Thursday, November 10, 2005 5:12:09 AM(UTC)
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Does anyone know where I could find food grade small oak barrels?
And would charing the inside help with flavor?
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#2 Posted : Thursday, November 10, 2005 2:06:07 PM(UTC)
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Why not just use oak chips in a mason jar? than you can vary your chips from light to dark by toasting them.
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#3 Posted : Thursday, November 10, 2005 4:12:05 PM(UTC)
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This is not a good time to buy a barrel. The large grape harvests in Europe and California has the wineries buying up everything they can get their hands on. For a beginner a used barrel is more forgiving. A new one can over oak. One of my early whiskeys tasted like a board. Used Bourbon barrels are a better deal.

I use only wood chips now. They are easier to control then a wooden barrel and you don't loose the 'Angels Share' from a Demijon. I use a mixture of new and used wood. Char helps if you are making a Bourbon type whiskey. Otherwise I toast the wood. I have experimented with many types of wood including apple and chestnut. Litre containers make it easier to experiment with otherwise I use 3 litre and larger glass to age in.
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#4 Posted : Friday, November 11, 2005 1:23:36 AM(UTC)
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Being new to wood chip use, what kind of wood chips? I have a pile of firewood in my yard that has red and white oak. Do you buy them? Toasting them in the oven I'm guessing until they turn brown? If I char them, do I wash them to get rid of excess ash? At what temperature and how long? Maybe someone could point me to an article....
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#5 Posted : Friday, November 11, 2005 8:27:59 AM(UTC)
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Homedistiller.org has good information. You can download the site for off line viewing. You can buy oak chips at home wine making stores. In some areas you can even buy old chipped whiskey barrels. The manufacturers use their own methods or make the barrels to a companies specification. There is no one temperature as they use a wood or gas fire and an experienced cooper to make the barrels.

Oak is used for tight cooperage because of its chemical as well as its physical nature.
Among Earth"s many tree species, oak is unique in the size of its radial rays which give strength when shaped into a barrel. Chemically, it is a particularly pure wood, unlike many tree species such as pine and rubber trees that contain resin canals which result in strong flavor extractives. The major constituents of oak are the three building blocks of all woody plants - cellulose, hemicellulose and lignin - plus tannins and small amounts of lipids ,oils, fats and waxes,. An exception, which applies mainly to American white oak, is the oak lactones. The small amounts of lipids give rise during the coopering process to oak lactones. These oak lactones occur in their highest levels in bourbon. Levels in that beverage can reach ten parts per million compared to levels which are usually well below two in other drinks.

The oak lactones possess a strong woody character and contribute to the unique aroma and flavor of bourbon. Although they occur in all oak woods used for cooperage, the cis isomer occurs in much higher levels in American white oak compared to other species. The cis isomer has a more intense character than the trans and influences all beverages which are matured in new - and sometimes used - American oak. These two compounds
come from small amounts of lipids - oils, fats and waxes - in the oak and increase dramatically during both seasoning and toasting. They can also decrease during toasting.

You can use both the white oak and red oaks from your firewood pile. Saw them into pieces or short sticks about half the length of your little finger and about that thick. Some people use thin chips and some use the sawdust. The thinner the wood is the faster the extraction. You can toast them under the oven broiler or in a toaster oven. Watch out as they tend to burst into flame. If you want char go ahead and let them burn some. I have also chared wood over a gas flame using tongs. I keep a spray bottle and a fireproof glove handy to put out the flames. The kitchen sink works well also. If the pieces get wet just let them dry. When you drop the pieces into the alcohol they will float for a time then sink. It is surprising what a little bit of wood will do.

I also reuse oak by drying it after use. The French use a mixture of new and used oak for Cognac and Brandy. They have three different grades, new, used once and then well used. The young Brandy is first put into new oak for a few weeks and then is transfered to used oak to prevent over oaking or that tannic board flavor that can develop. I have had this happen to me.

I age where it is warm as the alcohol ages faster. I tried a cool cellar but it doesn't make a better product it just takes longer.

I hope this helps you. Have fun and experiment. The only bad thing that can happen with oak is you will feel like a beaver eating a tree if your alcohol is over oaked.
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#6 Posted : Friday, November 11, 2005 8:34:19 AM(UTC)
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Thanx for the response. I didn't know it was that easy!
I'll take your advice and go to homedistiler.org.
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#7 Posted : Friday, November 11, 2005 12:35:47 PM(UTC)
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Hey Hans Brenner,
My hat's off to you man! You came accross with a really informative narrative there! Keep em coming. People like me need to hear from knowledgeable people like you. Like standtz, I appreciate your comments.
Thanks for your expertise,
Spiritmaker
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#8 Posted : Saturday, November 12, 2005 3:25:00 AM(UTC)
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[Delete this line and type your message here]
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#9 Posted : Tuesday, November 15, 2005 2:14:50 PM(UTC)
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Thank you Spiritmaker. I should have added that the cure for over oaking is to dilute the old batch with a new one and continue aging. Besides whiskey and brandy can benefit from blending.
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#10 Posted : Wednesday, November 16, 2005 8:20:09 AM(UTC)
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Just a quick question on toasted oak. Typically how long do you age with the oak chips? I know everyone states to sample it occassionally, but everyone must have some time frame, a day, a week, a month, etc.
Mine has been aging for 3 days and it already tastes like wood. Thanx.
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#11 Posted : Thursday, November 24, 2005 2:07:51 AM(UTC)
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Another quick question: Along with the ageing time, how many chips ,volume?, would you recommend as a starting point per iter?
I really enjoy this forum- thanks everyone.
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#12 Posted : Tuesday, May 23, 2006 6:49:18 AM(UTC)
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Just purchased a new 3 gal. toasted oak barrel, is there a break-in period with like wine or sherry?

Thanks,
Roger
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