I nevered used that grain bill but 7kg corn, 1.5kg rye and 1.5kg 6row gives me that sg with a total volume of 12gallons. I sparge after fermenting on grain with 1 gal fresh water for each 6 gal ferment. Fermenters are 10gal size. I use a 7 gallon pot to cook/mash and that time split the mash into two fermentors and then add water until i hit the SG i wanted.

Hey JB,

How technical do you want to get into the sugar calculations? You can calculate the theoretical yield of the actual starch present in the grains and the resulting sugars from that mash, then factor in expected losses for a rough estimate of how much grain you would need.

If you are interested in that approach, I might be able to assist in the calculations, but it will get a bit technical.

Specialty Enzymes.

This is a little something i have been doing on the side. Let me know what you think, and if it is pertinent.
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Conversions that this guide will be working off of, if you want to use a different conversion, be my guest but make sure it is correct. Also remember that weight and volume are not interchangeable in most cases, only with water is this acceptable. It is better to think of water as an exception rather than the norm in most cases.

1kg = 2.205lbs 1 gallon = 3.785 Liters
1kg = 1000g 1L = 1000 milliliters
1 fluid ounce = 29.57 mL 1 ounce = 28.35 grams
1 gallon of water = 8.34lbs 1 pound = 16 oz.

This is pertinent to the next few calculations we will be going through based on the weight of starch to the weight of water. You can only compare two like things with the same units; different units of measurement must be converted, kind of like fractions back in middle school. Each fraction must have the same denominator before they can be added or subtracted, more or less the same thing here.

Typical suggested ratios of water: grain, range from 2.5:1 to 4:1. Now it is possible to go lower than 2.5lbs water to 1lb grain, just be sure to dial in your equipment before trying for the thicker mashes, otherwise inefficiency can result.

Also remember that starch is different than grain, very obvious observation I know, but it needs to be said. Most whole grains such as corn, barley, rye, wheat, etc. will be comprised mostly of starch, but they have other goodies in there as well. Usually your grain provider will give a sheet that designates how much starch, beta-glucan, protein, etc. is in the batch of grain you purchased. Use that starch content % for your calculations. If purchasing actual starch, which has been processed by someone else, it should be 90-100% pure starch, and no corrections need to be made to compensate.

This is applicable for the amount of enzymes needed to convert the starch to sugar, not for the calculation based on mash tun size. This can also be used to calculate theoretical sugar yields for each individual mash.

Hypothetical Situation 1:

Mash size

We have 600 gallons of water, and we want to run a 4:1 ratio (water: grain) in this mash. We will be mashing 100% unmalted barley where the barley starch content is 65%.

600 gallons of water x 8.34lbs = 5004lbs x 1/4 (4:1 ratio) = 1251lbs of barley.

This means we should add 1250lbs of barley to 600 gallons of water to achieve our desired ratio. This will increase the total volume of the mash, so make sure you have a 800-1000 gallon capacity mash tun.

Theoretical yield

1250lbs of barley at 65% starch content.

1250 x .65 = 813lbs of pure starch = 813lbs of sugar (assuming no losses and full conversion)

813lbs sugar/5004 lbs. water = 16% sugar solution (roughly) or 16.24g/100mL (exactly)

It is good to know the theoretical yield as this will then show whether there are some large inefficiencies in the mash, and will let you know to start looking from problem spots.

Hypothetical Situation 2:

Mash Size

500 gallon mash being run at a 2.5:1 ratio, with wheat starch (premade) at 95% starch content.

500gallons water x 8.34lbs = 4170lbs of water x 1 / 2.5 (2.5:1 ratio) = 1668lbs of starch

Running at this ratio, we can add 1668lbs of starch to the 500gallons of water to achieve our desired results. Once again make sure you have a mash tun large enough to accommodate the total volume increase when the starch is added to the water.

Theoretical Yield

1668 lbs. of wheat starch at 95% starch content.

1668 x .95 = 1585lbs of starch = 1585lbs of sugar (assuming no losses etc.)

1585lbs sugar/4170lbs water = 38% sugar solution (roughly) or 38.34g/100mL (exactly)

Be careful of running a mash this high on sugar content, the high osmotic pressure can reduce yeast productivity, or even kill them before their job is done.


Percent yield

Let's say we got a 34% sugar yield out of this mash as our actual yield. We can then compare that versus what the theoretical yield is to get the % yield. This will allow us to calculate the discrepancies if necessary.

Actual/theoretical x 100 = % yield.

34/38 x 100 = 89.5% yield

Not especially necessary with the calculations that we already ran, but it can be useful if working backwards, or trying to do a compare/contrast experiment. Because 4% sugar loss can happen in two separate mashes, but if one is supposed to have 24% sugar, and the other 38% sugar, the 4% loss is different between the two.

20/24 x 100 = 83.33% versus 34/38 x 100 = 89.5%

This is not an easy concept to grasp, but once it is harnessed, this concept can provide a vast improvement in quality and consistency in a distillery. "Distilling is 75% science, and 25% art" a wise man once said, don't forget the science part.

"Hi SEB,

Are there any papers, studies, guidelines, etc. with respect to the soluble starch concentration v. efficiency of the alpha and gluco amylase enzymes? I read something (somewhere ... and I can't locate it again) that too high of a starch concentration can act as an inhibitor. I believe it actually stated that as the starches were hydrolyzed the increasing sugar concentration was the inhibitor.

Also, for the powdered enzymes (BA-100/GA-100) are there any concentration guidelines? The spec sheets are always in terms of enzyme weight to DS weight ... but not in terms of enzyme concentration in solution.

Regards,
--JB"

Hey JB,

Sorry for the late reply, Holidays and all that stuff.

I tried looking around for papers of that nature, and I was unsuccessful. I would err on the side of caution and say, "Yes, high concentrations of starch can inhibit enzyme activity". Whether that is relevant or not is another thing entirely, as enzymes are fairly potent and when it comes to "inhibiting" 10-20% inhibition is statistically significant, but in small systems (home level even to craft distilling levels) the inhibition should not directly affect the results.

I must say there are not, and may never be any concentration guidelines for enzymes. The problem being that many enzyme companies sell the same product but at different concentrations to give them an edge, or just to confuse competitors. This very strongly comes into play when dealing with "enzyme blends" and proprietary nature etc. Novozymes has even gone so far as to create their own unit of enzyme measurement to confuse competitors, which is not all that hard when there are several ways to measure the activity of the enzymes in the first place. There is a lot of other crap that comes into play, in the end it is just a confusing jumble.

So enzyme concentration guidelines are out for the foreseeable future... I can tell you that a decent range to follow is usually 0.01-0.1% w/w or v/v. Low end dosing is more for clarification, or longer exposure times. Higher end dosing is more for extractions, shorter exposures, or less than optimal conditions.

Hope this helps, Happy Holidays!

SEB

Gravelier I agree with your first couple paragraphs (almost) completely, but your third paragraph causes some confusion.

6 row malt actually has a higher diastatic power or more enzymes in it than 2 row. The benefit of 2 row is a higher extract content, which generally is desirable for producing more beer, and getting higher sugar yields. 6 row is typically used for adjunct mashing procedures where the higher enzyme content can be used to more quickly convert the supplemental (adjunct) starch.

The 120 F rest is actually not a conversion step at all, that is a protease rest. At the 120 F temperature the natural proteases of the malted barley activate to degrade the protein in the mash, this will remove the potential for chill haze later on in the process, and will provide more free amino nitrogen for the yeast to use during fermentation. Beta-amylase, a starch degradation enzyme does not really get activated until at least 126 F, with regards to malted barley, and alpha-amylase is activated around 149 F. The rest of your mashing procedure makes sense, you bring it to the top range of the beta-amylase, and low range of the alpha-amylase working range for a period of time, then take it higher to deactivate the beta-amylase and allow the alpha-amylase to work faster.

Beta-amylase preferentially produces maltose, but also some complex sugars and glucose.
Alpha-amylase is a random cutter and will produce a wide variety of complex or simple sugars.

Are we reading the same book? I took all this information right out of "The Complete Joy of Homebrewing" 3rd edition by Charlie Papazian pg. 243-246. Yes I do source home brewing books...

Cheers mate, why are we talking about beer again?

SpecZyme

Did you get that impression from this thread?