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#1 Posted : Wednesday, December 21, 2005 1:38:10 AM(UTC)
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I am new to distillation, as already stated, so if I state something just ignorant let me know here as my mind is working like crazy these days on the possibilities.

A little history first I started brewing beer in 1994, I currently have a home built keggerator that hold four kegs that I keep full year round. I am an all grain brewer and would never change that. I have brewed 5-7 batches of wine with success, easier than I thought.

So one day I walk into the local brew shop and lo and behold the most beautiful sight a ready to go reflux distillation apparatus perfect for making water for my wifes iron. I needed it, gotta have. So I picked it up. Now I have read many post on here and if my math is correct the output is somewhat small ,depending on the alcohol % of the completed fermentation, and the boiling bucket that came with this guy is not that large. I would prefer to make one or two runs a year and mix multiple variations from that. Soooooooo

With that in mind I noticed I can also purchase a 2' o-ring to mount my column to a keg. Now comes the interesting part, heating, if I have a 15 gal keg that will reguire a substantial electric heater. Not 100% sure I want to play with fire around 190 proof yet. So my idea is this what if I mount an electric water heater element inside this keg wire it up to a thermostat as you would a have a hot water heater and have it in direct contact with the liquid I am wanting to heat. Does anyone see a problem with this theory?

Sorry for being so long winded, and thanks in advance for any advice to this newbie in the art.

Brian
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#2 Posted : Wednesday, December 21, 2005 3:34:01 AM(UTC)
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Brian, I'm not real sure that a hot water heater element will get hot enough to get the batch to 78!C or not, it should, buttttt I would be leary of it for two reasons: 1. its not copper or stainless and will impart a taste in the product, 2 safety, you are going to have to use something to seal it into the keg with and that product will not be copper or stainless and you also have the problem of localized heating. ie. the element is going to get real hot right next to it and hence so is the liquid, hotter then 78C, makes me think again, taste and smell going into the final product. I have a keg for a pot and I use my propane fish cooker and it works great. I infact have two of them, one is a very large burner type for heating large pots fast and I use it to get the pot to temp, takes about an hour, don't want to rush it, and them I put the pot onto my small burner that has a burner like what is on a stove and finish the job here. You can controll the temp very easily and you also have a cooker that you can boil mud bugs with, like to have everything with a two fold purpose, get my drift? Anyway, don't worry about the flame, just be carefull and its no more dangerous then any other method of heating, just burns ya, no shocks!!!!!! hope this helps....Jimbull
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#3 Posted : Thursday, December 22, 2005 2:28:29 AM(UTC)
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Hi Jim,

Thanks for responding, I have found a stainless element ,although not cheap, I would use that one. As for mounting I am a welder and plan to drill a 1' hole and weld a means to screw the element into the lower end of the keg. this would give the ability to 1, change it out if needed. 2, Ensure I can get a good ground, I agree electricity and liquid would be far worse than the fire. I guess my biggest concern is the localized heating. I am not sure what off flavors or characteristics this would cause, but on the other hand some of the other rigs discussed here have submersible heating elements how would this be any different?

Brian
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#4 Posted : Thursday, December 22, 2005 2:57:52 AM(UTC)
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Jimbull/Brian, I too would like to know more about using a hot water heater element in a still! I have read several postings in the past and it seems that this a fairly common method for heating the wash/beer to distill it. My big worry was ,is, how to control the heat? The standard hot water heater thermostats all attach to the outside of the cooker/boiler and react to temp changes in the metal pot itself ,as transferred from the hot liquid,. These type thermostats are relativly enexpensive as compared to internal thermostats, and this fact alone makes them seem a logical chioce! But even so, I agree with you Jimbull that localized heat build up COULD possibly burn some of the unfermented sugars that may remain in the liquid, thus imparting an unwanted taste. But apparantly, a lot of people DO use this method. I have asked before, but no one has answered my question about controling the heater with the cheaper thermostat. If you or anyone reading this, PLEASE give me your experience, knowledge or even your opinion on this question.
Thaks to both of you for readdressing this question.
Spiritmaker
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#5 Posted : Thursday, December 22, 2005 4:12:58 AM(UTC)
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Brian, You are probably right on the element issue as a number of people do it this way. The only sure fired method is to try it and let us all know how it works out. Afterall, there is the carbon filter to take all taste away and that really is the way to go....good luck...Jimbull
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#6 Posted : Saturday, December 24, 2005 4:53:53 AM(UTC)
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Brian, you mentioned being able to take the element out. I think if it were me I'd take it out after every run and clean it really well, just to help with the taste of the product. As for the propane cooker I too have one and they do a very good job. Just make sure you have no vapor leaks around the flame and you'll do fine.
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#7 Posted : Monday, December 26, 2005 5:37:36 AM(UTC)
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stillmaker, i have gathered that the thermostat for a water heater will not give a constant heat. it will either be off or on, therefor you will not be able to equalize a reflux still.
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#8 Posted : Monday, December 26, 2005 7:07:39 AM(UTC)
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ricky, thanks for your reply, but I only have a 'pot' type still, I have never even seen a reflux still ,except in photos on-line,! I imagine that someday I too, will 'graduate' to this higher level of 'stillin' but till then, I was wondering if the problem you pointed out would really matter with a common 'pot' still? My little 1100watt hotplate cycles on and off too, and it dosen't seem to impare the quality of my product. So, my question is, do you think that the hot water thermostat would work with a pot or not? I really hate to go to the trouble and expense in building this if someone has already discovered that I would be making a mistake!
Thanks,
Spirtmaker
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#9 Posted : Monday, December 26, 2005 10:53:39 AM(UTC)
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Hi Boys, Just looking at your letters and I do think that the hotwater thermo is sewt at around 10-15 degrees variance in its setting and that is not going to work tooo wekk with a stil. Of course this is only my opinion but I don't think it will work, need to get tighter with a controll unit made for tight temps...just my opinion...Jimbull
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#10 Posted : Monday, January 30, 2006 9:40:05 AM(UTC)
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Hey guys,

Got an answer. I have a home made pot still that I welded a 2' NPT in the side, about two inches from the bottom. Wired it up and placed some water in it to see what I could get to happen. I was able to control the temp reduce the water.

Next I placed 3.5 gal of wash and gave that a run, it did work as well as the water.

I did not notice much deviation on the thermometer I placed at the top of the unit ,also a screw in type,. Of course that does not mean it will work for a Reflux system. But worked ok for a pot system, got the element at Home Depot. It was stainless steel and easy to wire up.
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#11 Posted : Monday, January 30, 2006 2:31:37 PM(UTC)
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Hello Anonymous, thanks for your reply, but could you clear up a question for me? What exactly is a 2 foot NPT? Seriously, I don't know what this is nor how to use it, so could you help me here? I gather that you were successful with it, whatever it is. I'm wondering if this is a common, standard hotwater heater element and thermostat combo? Maybe I missed something but I do want to know the answer, so plaese reply!
Thanks for your help,
Spiritmaker
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#12 Posted : Monday, January 30, 2006 3:01:20 PM(UTC)
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NPT stands for National Pipe Threads. Hope this helps.
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#13 Posted : Friday, February 03, 2006 7:50:39 AM(UTC)
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Thanks freebrew, that does clear up one thing for me, but I'm still wondering if Anonymous actually meant ' ,inches, instead of ' ,feet, and if this NPT is really just the adapter that the element screws into? Also does he mean that this is wired through a hotwater heater thermostat ,to control that heat, or something else? I'm not trying to be difficult, but I just don't folow him, thats all. So PLEASE Mr. Anonymous, write again and clear this up for me, I'd love to use your idea if I can just understand it correctly. I just scored a neat 'Corny Keg' for free and intend to use it in making my first reflux type still. I've read many postings that say I couldn't control the heat closely enough with a hotwater element/thermostat in a reflux still, so I will probably just use this with my Pot still, but I don't wanna ruin that one if this idea won't work!
Thanks,
Spiritmaker
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#14 Posted : Friday, February 03, 2006 8:40:54 AM(UTC)
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Maybe this will help you, Go to the hardware store and look at the replacement elements for a hot water heater. See the size of the 'screw in threat that is on them' ? Should be about 1-2' in Diameter. This is the NPT size, again, it should be about 1-2'. Get a Stainless Steel, or copper, which you can get but will be harder to Braze into you keg. Brazing is the only way to mate two dissimiliar metals together. The SS can be welded with TIG or MIG welder. Now, get a 2000 watt or so element that fits the collar and get a water tight electrical box ,PLastic, and get s 20 amp reestate ,spelling?, put it in the plastic recepital box asnd wire it up. Bingo, you have you controller, element and you are ready to go. Keep it off the bottom, I would say 4' to assure you don't get a hot spot and should work fine for you....You basically just made a hot water heater, except that the reestate will let you go to a hight temp then the hot water heater therostate will let you go.. Keep us posted.....Jimbull
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#15 Posted : Friday, February 03, 2006 1:41:20 PM(UTC)
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Spiritmaker,

I too would be interested in what you come up with. I do know that the Corny Kegs are made of Stainless Steel, but keep in mind they are not very thick at all. I have contemplated purchasing a beer keg from ebay and giving this a try as that Stainless Steel is much thicker. I did get a chance to review the selection of replacement elements that Jimbull mentioned at the local hardware store and found that here in the US 2' is avaliable. When and if I do this I plan to go with a 2' NPT as if this does not work I can always take the element out and then cut the top out of the keg to make a good mash tun for my beer brewing. Unfortunately I will not be able to go the 4' that Jimbull recommends as this is way to high for a mash tun if the element idea fails.

I have not began the process yet but hope to when the weather gets better.

Brian
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#16 Posted : Friday, February 03, 2006 2:59:00 PM(UTC)
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[Just a thought. I don't know what size kegs you are talking about but couldn't you put it in a large pot of water and heat that over a propane stove? Not quite a steam jacket but I do believe water boils at 220. Would this work? hell, I don't know.
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#17 Posted : Friday, February 03, 2006 5:51:14 PM(UTC)
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Damnit!
I just drank too much shine. Hate it when I pass that point! Oh well, pay for it in the 'mornin'. Soooo.......seems like hot pads usually work pretty well. No flames for explosions, you don't need to scrub them after every 'stillin', no brazin' necessary. And it seems like you can get 'em at 1500 watts or so around a hundred bucks on ebay maybe. Is that just not strong enough for the size? Otherwise it sure seems like an easy solution.
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#18 Posted : Saturday, February 04, 2006 1:58:00 AM(UTC)
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If you are looking for a beer keg which I was. I went to the a Krogers store and bought a 15.5 gallon keg of beer and after the keg is empty I will use it as a boiler. That way you get two pleasures from one keg, drinking the beer and ending up with a boiler. By the time you buy one of ebay and pay shipping you will be at the same price or more. Soooooo, why not enjoy a keg of beer. Have frineds over several times such as I have and try to empty the keg. I have tried these kegs as a mash tun and I went away from the keg. If you use the keg as a mash tun you will have to insulate very well because tempature is lost very rapidly.
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#19 Posted : Saturday, February 04, 2006 6:36:33 AM(UTC)
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Freebrew,

I have one I already use as a mashtun and another as a lautering tun. I am talking beer here, so it requires no insulation in my setup. I currently have a triple tier system that I use to make my beer. My current mash tun is 15.5, I would like to go with a 7.5 ,pony keg,. I would go buy a keg of beer, but by the time I got the taps and forced my self to consume the nasty beer avaliable to me ,Bud, Bud Light, etc.., I would give $10.00 extra for a Molson keg.

My 2 cents.

Brian
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#20 Posted : Saturday, February 04, 2006 8:46:59 AM(UTC)
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I built a rim system and was not able to contain the heat that I needed. I went to a cooler instead and have increased my effciency dramatically. I agree with the beer that has to be drank in order to have a keg. I have a friend that loves Bud light and he told me I never make a beer that he likes,I love a lot of hops, so I bought the Bud light and now he has no complaints. If you enter any of your brews in competition I would love to post information of a brew club that is having a competition on July 31, 2006. Great competition.
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