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Offline blaztaz  
#1 Posted : Saturday, March 30, 2013 4:23:42 PM(UTC)
blaztaz


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"This is my first post. I just got my still and it did not ship with a thermometer, so I will need to get in touch with BH and get that fixed. In the mean time I have been trying to devise a heat exchanger for the cooling water. I want to try to keep the water at a constant temperature and not have big fluctuations. Basically I am trying to find something that is not the frozen milk jugs. I wanted to try out my new contraption this weekend, but I don't have a thermometer in order to test if this works at all. Here is what I built, please throw me some comments and I will keep you updated on how it works once I can finally start up my still.

Here is a parts list of what I purchased to create this 'thing':

1 - 32 gallon Rubbermaid Roughneck garbage can w/lid
1 - 10' stick of 1/4"" all thread (got it much cheaper in the electrical section of a hardware store)
12 - 1/4"" Fender washers
12 - 1/4 Hex nuts
14"" of 8"" ducting and connector to tie it together
1 8"" inline fan for duct work
1 - 4' electrical cord with ground
1 - electrical box with knockout on back
1- cover to fit said electrical box with knockout
1 - 1/2"" cord grip compression connector
3 - wire nuts
1 - bag of ducting screws
1 - 6' length of aluminum angle
1- 130 gph submersible pump
1- universal fountain kit


Here is how I built it:

I took the lid from the garbage can and cut away the outer ring. I used a pair of tin snips and cut it down enough that it would fit inside the garbage can. I tried to leave the inner supports on the lid so it would not become too flimsy. I then cut a 3/4"" hole in the center so I could fit the tube from the fountain kit through the hole and then drilled several smaller holes to allow water to drain back into the pool of water below. I didn't want to go too crazy with the number of holes to drain back because I wanted a shield between the hotter water in the reservoir and the air I would be using to cool the water. Around the edges, about 1/2"" in from the outer edge, I drilled 6 holes 1/4"" in diameter, equidistant from each other. I then created 6 hangers out of the 1/4"" all thread and connected them to the lid using the 6 holes I drilled around the outer edge.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]800[/ATTACH]

I then connected the fountain kit with the 130 gph pump. I inserted the riser tube from the pump through the hole and then connected the head of the fountain to the tube. I added water and turned it on to see the flow.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]801[/ATTACH]

Then I attached the hardware to the inline fan and attached it to the foot of 8"" ducting.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]802[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]803[/ATTACH]

I then mounted the duct work over the fountain flow with the angle and turned it on. I did find that the space between the bottom of the duct work and the fountain makes a very big difference. There is a point when you are too low that it restricts too much of the air flow and you can hear the fan slow down. There is a place when you get too high that you can start to pull water droplets up into the fan. Once I got too high, I dropped ti about 1"" and then fastened it there. I would like to come up with a better system to hold the duct work in place.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]804[/ATTACH]


I am thinking that if this does not cool the water fast enough, I am going to get a motorcycle radiator and mount a fan to it and use that to give an initial cooling from the cooling water coming from the still. Hope it works, wish I could try it out.


Blaztaz"
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Offline Bushy  
#2 Posted : Saturday, March 30, 2013 5:49:05 PM(UTC)
Bushy


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Hi blaztaz, that's an interesting idea for cooling your water. I'll be interested to see how it works.
I suggest that you go to Wally World or somewhere similar and by a digital thermometer for your still. You'll find it much more convienent to use than the ones you get from BH. I used my BH thermometer one time and then bought a digital, much easier to read the changes.
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Offline blaztaz  
#3 Posted : Saturday, March 30, 2013 6:32:42 PM(UTC)
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I am not sure how well this will work. I keep filling a 5 gallon bucket with the hottest water I can get out of my bathtub and it takes less than 30 min to get it cold to the touch. I am hoping the flow that I get through the still will not be hotter than that and will come at a much slower pace :) .

Any suggestions on the thermometer? How long does the tube need to be? I would love to get one tomorrow so I can play with this thing!! I didn't get an instruction manual and I am not sure I have the hoses hooked up right.

I ordered the PSII HC and have basically hooked the hoses up from bottom to top. So the bottom of the tower is the input and then worked my way back and forth to the top and then out there. Then on the spout (not sure what the real term for it is) I did the same. Bottom is the input and top is the output for cooling.

I will holler back and let you know how (and if) it works :)
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Offline Bushy  
#4 Posted : Saturday, March 30, 2013 6:58:12 PM(UTC)
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Hi, I just bought a digital thermometer to use in cooking, BBQing, etc. The probe that goes in my rubber bung at the top of the column has a wire that connects to the reciever/readout and the wire is only about 2 1/2 feet long, wish it was longer. So I put the reciever it plugs into on something tall enough to hold it without stretching the wire. I plan on making a hanger for it with a platform to hang on the column when I get the time.
The probe is only about 4 inches long. All it has to do is go through the bung and wxtend about an inch into the column. Just enough to be level with the condenser exit.

For the hose connections there is some debate but the configuration I, and quite a few others, use is ;

For the column connections; bring the water in at the TOP of the column and work your way down and out the bottom. The reason being you want the column to get colder as the vapor progresses up.

For the condenser; bring the water in at the Bottom and exit at the Top. The reason here is you want the vapor to get cooler as it gets closer to the exit.

The only way to find out if your water cooler will work well enough is to try it out. I would suggest that you freeze a couple,3 or 4, water jugs just in case you end up needing them.
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Offline blaztaz  
#5 Posted : Sunday, March 31, 2013 4:41:22 PM(UTC)
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"I didn't get a chance to check out the cooler. Today I found one of the thermometers that you were suggesting. I went lazy and got the digital with the pager. The bad part is that I have to order a new plug that I can drill. The hole in the one they have sent me is too big. On the bright side, I found a thread here that suggested using plumbers tape to fill the gap. It worked for not and I was able to run the gallon of water through and test for steam leaks. The instructions say I should not using cooling water when I do this, so I did not use the cooling tower yet. I plan to run water through it tomorrow and see if I can distill some water with the tower running. BTW, the design came from when I worked at the mines and we had cooling towers. It was not my own concept, just my attempt to miniaturize something I knew from those days. I will let you know how it goes tomorrow and if it can keep up with distilling water.

I have to figure out the vinegar wash thing too. I don't see that in the manual that was emailed to me, but I do see a lot of references to that in the forum. More research to get that done before I start fermenting and getting some things ready to make my first real run.

[HR][/HR]



Throughout the centuries there were men who took first steps down new roads armed with nothing but their own vision. Their goals differed, but they all had this in common: that the step was first, the road new, the vision unborrowed, and the response they received "” hatred. The great creators "” the thinkers, the artists, the scientists, the inventors "” stood alone against the men of their time. Every great new thought was opposed. Every great new invention was denounced. The first motor was considered foolish. The airplane was considered impossible. The power loom was considered vicious. Anesthesia was considered sinful. But the men of unborrowed vision went ahead. They fought, they suffered and they paid. But they won.
"”Ayn Rand"
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Offline curtsat15  
#6 Posted : Sunday, March 31, 2013 10:13:14 PM(UTC)
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Well in my own humble opinion, if it will distill water (which boils at a higher temp than etoh, you're good to go!
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Offline okie  
#7 Posted : Monday, April 01, 2013 4:07:54 AM(UTC)
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The old swamp coolers is what you need. It moves water over that medium and that cools the water. I thought about doing the same thing. recycle the water ad let the air cool it. They even do that for huge refineries. It works.

If you don't get the temp down enough, build a frame for the medium and have the water trickle over that and use the fan to blow through it as it moves back down.
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Offline Bushy  
#8 Posted : Monday, April 01, 2013 4:33:08 AM(UTC)
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The vinegar and water is a 50/50% mix. I use a gallon of vinegar mixed with the same of water and collect about a gallon of the mix for a good cleaning.

If you have a wine or beer making shop close enough to you they usually have the rubber bungs available with and without holes. I buy them without a hole and drill my own.
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Offline blaztaz  
#9 Posted : Monday, April 01, 2013 5:26:11 AM(UTC)
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Yeah :) very same idea! I didn't want to use the mesh that they use in a swamp cooler so I tried to just spread out the water as thin (small droplets) as I could. My only concern is if it will have enough capacity to keep up. We shall soon see!!
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Offline blaztaz  
#10 Posted : Monday, April 01, 2013 5:42:31 AM(UTC)
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Bushy, Thanks again!! One of the things I noticed with my steam run last night was how long it takes to cool the whole tower down after you have reached that temperature. I was up until 2 am so I could break it all down. The max temperature that I could reach with the 1500 W electric burner I have was 199 degrees at the top of the tower. This seemed a little low, but I have no clue where it should be. More and more to learn!!
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Offline Maddawgs  
#11 Posted : Monday, April 01, 2013 7:03:54 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: blaztaz Go to Quoted Post
This is my first post. I just got my still and it did not ship with a thermometer, so I will need to get in touch with BH and get that fixed. In the mean time I have been trying to devise a heat exchanger for the cooling water. I want to try to keep the water at a constant temperature and not have big fluctuations. Basically I am trying to find something that is not the frozen milk jugs. I wanted to try out my new contraption this weekend, but I don't have a thermometer in order to test if this works at all. Here is what I built, please throw me some comments and I will keep you updated on how it works once I can finally start up my still.

Here is a parts list of what I purchased to create this 'thing':

1 - 32 gallon Rubbermaid Roughneck garbage can w/lid
1 - 10' stick of 1/4" all thread (got it much cheaper in the electrical section of a hardware store)
12 - 1/4" Fender washers
12 - 1/4 Hex nuts
14" of 8" ducting and connector to tie it together
1 8" inline fan for duct work
1 - 4' electrical cord with ground
1 - electrical box with knockout on back
1- cover to fit said electrical box with knockout
1 - 1/2" cord grip compression connector
3 - wire nuts
1 - bag of ducting screws
1 - 6' length of aluminum angle
1- 130 gph submersible pump
1- universal fountain kit


Here is how I built it:

I took the lid from the garbage can and cut away the outer ring. I used a pair of tin snips and cut it down enough that it would fit inside the garbage can. I tried to leave the inner supports on the lid so it would not become too flimsy. I then cut a 3/4" hole in the center so I could fit the tube from the fountain kit through the hole and then drilled several smaller holes to allow water to drain back into the pool of water below. I didn't want to go too crazy with the number of holes to drain back because I wanted a shield between the hotter water in the reservoir and the air I would be using to cool the water. Around the edges, about 1/2" in from the outer edge, I drilled 6 holes 1/4" in diameter, equidistant from each other. I then created 6 hangers out of the 1/4" all thread and connected them to the lid using the 6 holes I drilled around the outer edge.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]800[/ATTACH]

I then connected the fountain kit with the 130 gph pump. I inserted the riser tube from the pump through the hole and then connected the head of the fountain to the tube. I added water and turned it on to see the flow.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]801[/ATTACH]

Then I attached the hardware to the inline fan and attached it to the foot of 8" ducting.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]802[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]803[/ATTACH]

I then mounted the duct work over the fountain flow with the angle and turned it on. I did find that the space between the bottom of the duct work and the fountain makes a very big difference. There is a point when you are too low that it restricts too much of the air flow and you can hear the fan slow down. There is a place when you get too high that you can start to pull water droplets up into the fan. Once I got too high, I dropped ti about 1" and then fastened it there. I would like to come up with a better system to hold the duct work in place.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]804[/ATTACH]


I am thinking that if this does not cool the water fast enough, I am going to get a motorcycle radiator and mount a fan to it and use that to give an initial cooling from the cooling water coming from the still. Hope it works, wish I could try it out.


Blaztaz

Hi Blaztaz,
That is a pretty extreme set up. I use two seperate 32 gallon water supplies, one each for the column and liebig, both pumped. I have temp sensors in each bucket to monitor temps thru the run. For the column supply I have water in at the top and out at the bottom, for the liebig supply I have water in at the bottom and out at the top. The idea is to have constant room temp (68f to 72f) water going to the heat source. I have found with the set up I use that over an 11 hour run my temps did not change more than 4 degrees f. I think this is due to the large volume of water available. I had several 2 litre frozen bottles ready but never needed them. Your set up may be a good mod in the summer when my shop gets to hot. Keep us updated on your progress.
Thanks, Maddawgs
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Offline Bushy  
#12 Posted : Tuesday, April 02, 2013 4:41:52 AM(UTC)
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Hi blaztaz, unless you plan on distilling water then 199 degrees is more than enough.

The cool down does take a while, just be sure to take out the rubber bung or you can collapse your boiler. Except the boiler my unit cools down enough to take the tower down in about 30 minutes, still very warm to the touch but managable. I've also found that disconnecting the water hoses, putting on some gloves and taking the tower off the boiler lets the tower cool down significantly faster. I just throw a towel over the boiler lid and let it cool down on it's own, or till the morning.
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Offline blaztaz  
#13 Posted : Tuesday, April 02, 2013 7:03:26 AM(UTC)
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Again, thanks! How much liquid comes out the bottom of the tower when you do this? I can always get a 5 gallon bucket to put the end in, but I was just curious.

I was not able to run the vinegar last night because I got caught late at work and then had to do shopping for food. One of the drawbacks of not having a wife, I need to do my own shopping and cooking. How long does it take to pull off a gallon of the 50/50 vinegar solution? Is this something I should just plan on doing on a weekend, or could I get it done in the 4-5 hours I have after work?

Thanks again!
Blaztaz
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Offline Bushy  
#14 Posted : Tuesday, April 02, 2013 8:20:03 AM(UTC)
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Hi, There is very little moisture in the tower at any time, it's all vapor. Now the cooling hoses have water in them but I empty those before I disconnect the tower and drain them back into the holding tank/cooler.

For the vinegar run whatever you can run in 4-5 hours should be good enough as long as your heat-up time is no more tha 1 1/2 hours. With 2 gallons in the boiler it will most likely heat up in an hour or less. Put the whole still together and run it hard and fast. The only cooling water to use is the condenser water, none to the tower. You should be able to run 3/4 to 1 gallon of solution in that time. Be sure to rinse everything out as soon as you can after the run.

If you have copper mesh just take some of the 50/50 solution and soak it in that for 10-15 minutes and rinse it off. No need to use mesh in the tower during the cleaning run.
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Offline blaztaz  
#15 Posted : Tuesday, April 02, 2013 9:35:26 AM(UTC)
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Hello Bushy, I went with the rashing rings (fear of the price of copper in the future and I plan to make as pure as I can until I get the hang of it). I have packed the column already, but it should be easy enough to empty it out and run them in the same way as you described the copper mesh. I will try this tonight and see how it goes again.

They did not have any bungs big enough for the tower at my local wine shop, but they did have a very small one that was not drilled. I bought one of those, drilled the hole in mine bigger and inserted that one in the hole and drilled it to fit. Seems to be good for now, but I still plan on ordering an un-drilled one from BH later on to replace this work around.

Thanks,
Blaztaz
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Offline blaztaz  
#16 Posted : Thursday, April 04, 2013 1:47:01 PM(UTC)
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I am currently learning the importance of insulating column and pot. I think I am losing too much heat. I cannot get the temp past 195 on my vinegar run. It has been running for 2 hours 15 min and I am fluxuating between 188 and 195 without any cooling going to the tower Sad
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Offline blaztaz  
#17 Posted : Thursday, April 04, 2013 4:27:54 PM(UTC)
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Ok, in my boredom I have read more on insulating and have decided to only insulate the pot for now. I am working inside so there should not be any elemental influences.

I did come up with some questions on hose configuration though. Since I was not producing enough heat to really do anything, I started to play with the cooling hoses and the cooling tower. I wanted to see if I could make it reach 172f and sit there. I found a few things out. One, I can't use the valve that was sent with my cooling system from BH. It does not give me enough control over the flow of water. Meaning, I try to open just a little to add some flow and it opens a lot more than I need. I tried and tried to be very careful, but this just wasn't possible. I plan on picking up a needle valve tomorrow and trying that. I would like to be able to control that water flow a lot more precisely.

The second thing I noticed was that with the inlet hose at the top of the tower and the outlet at the bottom the water would often drain faster than I would have to put the water in. Gravity sent cooling water back to the drain faster than I was adding in the column. Is this a problem or is this part of the debate on where the water supply should come in and go out on the tower?

Thanks again,
Blaztaz
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Offline flht01  
#18 Posted : Thursday, April 04, 2013 10:46:21 PM(UTC)
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If you want to feed the column from the top, water in the top tube and out the bottom tube, and want to keep the tubes flooded just turn the drain line up ( making an upside down "u" shape ) before gravity feeding to the drain. As long as the top of the u shape is above the inlet hose the tubes will stay flooded
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Offline blaztaz  
#19 Posted : Friday, April 05, 2013 2:48:46 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: flht01 Go to Quoted Post
If you want to feed the column from the top, water in the top tube and out the bottom tube, and want to keep the tubes flooded just turn the drain line up ( making an upside down "u" shape ) before gravity feeding to the drain. As long as the top of the u shape is above the inlet hose the tubes will stay flooded


Sometimes when we are learning something new, we forget to look at the obvious!!

Thanks for the obvious answer I was staring at flhto1!!
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Offline RCRed  
#20 Posted : Saturday, April 06, 2013 4:59:03 AM(UTC)
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Hey Blaz - Did you get (And were usin') the diffuser plate too?
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