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Originally Posted by: RoyseCityRed  Hey Blaz - Did you get (And were usin') the diffuser plate too? Hello Royse, I sure did. I ran the vinegar and water run last night for about 8 hours and pulled off about 1/2 a gallon. I was playing with the cooling, so it didn't run hard and heavy the whole time. I wanted the diffuser plate for two reasons. I didn't want to damage my still if I messed up on heating, and I wanted as much even heat as I could get. Even with it, and my pot insulated, I can barely hit 200f. Along those lines, I have a question about cooling. It seems to take very little cooling water to keep the vinegar and water solution cooled. I tried to run that solution and keep it at 188f (arbitrary number that gave me a goal to try for). I could not find a needle valve that was over 1/4' so I got another type and it took so little to drop the temperature by +/- 5f. Is that normal, or should I keep searching for a 1/2" needle valve. It did seem like there was a good +/- 3-5 f swing in the column from time to time. It would sit at 188 f for 10 minutes or so, and then it would drop to 184 f for a couple minutes and then go up to 190 f and then back to 188 f. Is it normal to see swings like that? Thanks, Blaztaz
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As I play around today I started to wonder if boiling chips would be the answer to raising the temp in my column? Any ideas or suggestions? I still do not want to insulate the column and the only reason I want to raise the temperature is so I can distill water when I need it 
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the condenser will probably not knock down the steam.
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Hi blaztaz, when running in reflux you can stabilize the column, and should, in order to stack and pull off the different factions cleanly. Without stabilizing the column you will quite often get temp fluctuations. I've never tried to stabilize water and vinegar before.
For controlling the water flow try a brass gate valve, they give a finer control than the ball valves do. Needle valves of that size may be hard to find and fairly expensive also. It takes very little change in water flow to move the temp in the tower. When I change the water flow I wait untill the temp stabilizes again before making any other changes, usually about 3-5 minutes.
I use copper mesh instead of ceramic rings for tower packing. The rings may have something to do with your temp problem.
I also distill water and when doing so don't use any copper packing in the column at all, just a straight pot still with condenser water only. I can get my tower head temp up to 212.5 degrees but that's all without cranking the heat up to where I worry about melting the diffuser plate.
I think you'll find making a real run will be quite a bit different than a water/vinegar run.
BTW some hardware stores sell copper mesh as a rodent guard, apparently it hurts their teeth and/or gums when they chew on it. I bought a 100 foot roll for $40.00 a while back and I think you can buy it in smaller rolls.
The ceramic rings are really good as boiling chips. Not so good for stillin. You need some copper in the vapor path, and with the mesh how tight or loose you roll it up can make a difference in the vapor flow.
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That's pretty interesting about the raschid rings... Must be two camps of thought on this one....I was advised the rings were better than copper, but I've seen enough of Bushy's posts to know...If he is saying it, pay heed, Rcr...  Bushy, are you referring to this type of mesh?: http://www.domyownpestco...h-p-1463.html?sub_id=229 |
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That is interesting. I have been reading that copper is best when you are making whiskeys and rums and such, but to make neutral spirits it is better to use the rings. Is this a true assumption or should I be looking at getting copper for my first neutrals run? I plan to run neutrals until I get really good at it. Then I will start with some whiskeys, then some rums, then some brandy's and then possibly some grappa :).
What are your thoughts on the rings vs copper mesh for the different types of product?
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Originally Posted by: blaztaz .... I have been reading that copper is best when you are making whiskeys and rums and such, but to make neutral spirits it is better to use the rings. That's prob what they told me, an being a perpetual newb, I went with rings, knowing I could get copper later... I'm new to this too, so I'll defer to Mr. Bushy's and others to opine on preference...As a point of note, I did go ahead and get two 20 ft rolls from that link above. They have 'slightly' higher pricing than some other sites, but the cheaper sites rape you on "processing and handling" - like 17.00 USD for 3-5 ground UPS on a single 20ft. roll. (I'm presuming they are using weight challlenged individuals who have unionized here) It may have been a dollar or two more, there is free 3-6 day ground shipping with the link above. |
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Hi Royce RR, Yes that's the right stuff.
Copper reacts with some of the cogeners, sulfer comes to mind, and helps reduce off flavors.
For neutral runs I fill both sections of my column with rolls of copper and place small rolls around the cooling water pipes inside the tower head.
The condenser takes more water to cool down 212 degree vapor but handles it nicely when distilling water. My main problem is maintaining a source of cold water for the condenser. I use a 32 gallon cooler and 1 gallon ice jugs with my still and have no problem when doing a regular run. But when stillin water I've found my cooling set up only good enough for about 2 gallons of water production.
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I ran the still with water today. I don't have any packing in the column at all and I have it set up as just the pot still. I was still only able to hit 200f.
I went to Wally World and got sever bags of rocks for aquariums and washed them and used as boiling chips. There was no difference in temperature, but the noise was sure a lot higher. I ran for about 6 hours as hard as it would push it and the cooling tower held up well. To prove this I need to buy a couple more thermometers so I can give an idea of what the temp change is over the run. The cooling water did heat up, but I really don't know how much yet.
I was only cooling the condenser and nothing in the column, so I am guessing that I will be facing more heat when I am trying to maintain the temp for running a sugar wash.
I was onlyl able to get about 1 1/2 gallons of distilled water in that time. I put 5 gallons of water in the pot and will continue to run it until I get my distilled water jug filled. (I use a lot of distilled water for other things at home, so why not?)
The next step is to get a wash going. I am running out of space in my apartment. I have a strawberry wine going right now and am bottling an apple wine (strawberry for a friends wedding in August and the Apple is for my sons 21st this month). For some reason, the Gerber recipe has caught my humor and I want to try that one. As soon as I have the distilled water jug filled I will get things going. I am excited to get my first product run under my belt. For now, I am going to stick to the rings. For no other reason than money. I have purchased the rings and have too many other things going this month in order to get more copper. I will plan to make the switch to copper as soon as I can. I may even try a split of rings and copper at some point.
I will continue to update this post with the performance of the tower for cooling. It is so easy to get off topic with this hobby!! Especially when there is so much to learn for this newbie!!
Have a great week all!
Blaztaz
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I just read about boiling point of water and altitude. I think I may be trying to reach the impossible of 212f. I am at a very high altitude and read that the boiling point of water at this altitude can be 201f. So my thermometer could be off by a couple degrees since I stay pretty stead at 199f. Have any of you worked a still in high altitude? I guess this is where slow and steady will be the ticket to find the temps where the product is distilled.
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Hi blaztaz, I did'nt know you were at a high altitude. I've never run at a high altitude but I do know that boiling points are lower the higher you go. I was wondering why you were getting water production at 199 degrees, that explains it.
It will be interesting to me to see your progress. What is your altitude?
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Originally Posted by: Bushy Hi blaztaz, I did'nt know you were at a high altitude. I've never run at a high altitude but I do know that boiling points are lower the higher you go. I was wondering why you were getting water production at 199 degrees, that explains it.
It will be interesting to me to see your progress. What is your altitude? Mile High City.... 5280 feet :)
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Interesting, I was actually thinking about this last night. I found this table: http://gillesenergies.we...boilingpointaltitude.htm I'm at 5,550' at my house as well. H2O boils at 203°f in my kettle. This as well: http://www.heartmagic.com/zzBoilingPoints.html
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Originally Posted by: Bodhammer That first one is awesome! I have been looking for the formula to show what my temperatures should be. Thanks a ton Bodhammer!
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Yesterday was supposed to be the 'Blizzard of 2013' here, so in short, I was able to work from home. This means I was able to run the still all day and through the night while distilling water.
I ran wide open for about 11 hours and found that the cooling tower gives about -5f of cooling. The water coming off the still was running at about 91f and the cooling water in the holding tank was about 86f. This held steady throughout the whole run. The next step is trying to maintain the cooling for a product run. That one will be a bit (I still need to get a sugar wash completed) and I will update on how it works once I have completed a run.
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Hi blaztaz, if your cooling tower did that well when boiling water then a product run should be a piece of cake for it.
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Rank: Junior Member Groups: Registered
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Originally Posted by: Bushy Hi blaztaz, if your cooling tower did that well when boiling water then a product run should be a piece of cake for it. I have been wondering about that. If I am dropping the temperature to a lower temp in the column, does that mean my cooling water will be higher because of the exchange between the column and the cooling water? I am still running the pot at the same temperature, correct? Or should I be looking at adjusting the heat source to match the temp I want in the column? This has been on my mind and I have not been sure of how that works. My assumption was that the temp at the pot would be the same and all the cooling and such happened in the column.
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Looks like I have had the wrong idea on the operations. Currently looking at the RSC and mod to the 1500W Hotplate.
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Hi blaztaz, once you start to get production out of the condenser you should lower the heat on the boiler. This is true for pot stillin or reflux. For pot stilling this is the only way to control your output, for reflux your column cooling water will control your output in conjuction with lowering the heat to the boiler. There are some that see no reason to adjust the column cooling water when in reflux and only adjust the heat to the boiler. Myself I utilize both means of controling the output speed and purity.
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