 Rank: Junior Member Groups: Registered
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"Cuts and rubbing alcohol. (long post)
I am still new and have only done three runs, but this "rubbing alcohol" smell/taste is getting the best of me. Let me explain my 3 runs and see if anybody has any ideas for me. I am using a copper pot, Leibeg condenser, and a 15.5 gallon keg. Most of the tasting came from the hearts.
The first run was a 5 gallon simple sugar mash using Fleischman"s yeast. Got it up to temp and had the drip rate at about 2-3 drops per second. Threw away the first 1 1/4 cups and started catching in one cup increments. They started around 65% and I stopped at around 30% for a total of 8 jars. I ran the still for about a total of 4 hours after the drops started. I let this air out over night and started the smelling/tasting routine. Full strength or diluted to 40%, they smell and taste like rubbing alcohol. Friends tasted it over the next couple of days, and had the same thoughts as me, rubbing alcohol.
The next run was the first fermentation of UJSSM. I thought that the previous run might have been "smeared", so I decided to slow down on this run. After heating up and the first drops started, I ran it about 1-2 drops a second. The total run this time, was around 7 hours. I collected and threw away the first 1 1/4 cups and started my cuts at about a 1 cup each. I didn't mention this above, but I had a lot of alcohol left over from the first run, so I added it to this run. It was a little over 2 quarts. I started catching at 75-76% and that held true for about four-five cuts. (1 cup per cut) I don't know if the added alcohol from previous run had anything to do with it testing a higher proof? Or if running it slower caused it to produce higher proofs? Or both? I did this until I had 10 cuts (10 jars
1 cup each) and got down around 35% and stopped making cuts. The jars were tasted that day, and the next day after airing out, and still have the rubbing alcohol taste.
The next run was the 2 gen from the UJSSM, without any alcohol from the previous run. I knew I didn"t have a lot of time, so I kinda planned a stripping run, sorta. I started my cuts and threw out the first 1 1/4 cups and the first cut was 60%. Lower than I expected, but I didn't add any extra from previous run. As above, I made my cuts in 1 cup increments and caught down to 35%. This gave me 10 cuts (1 cup each), plus I caught some at the end for future runs. Total run time was a little over 2 1/2 hours and the drip rate was a fast drip. Not a stream, but a fairly fast drip. Some friends stopped by and we tasted several jars and agreed it was rubbing alcohol.
Three different runs, three different drip rates, yet same taste.
Does moonshine taste like rubbing alcohol?
Also, at the end of the run, when I get down around 30%, I get this oily film on top of my cuts. I have no idea what this film is?
Thanks in advance for any help."
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 Rank: Senior Member Groups: Registered, Moderator
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"So your still is a copper pot or a 15.5 gallon keg?
If your recipe was sugar and yeast thats gonna be one issue to deal with before your next wash.
From reading your post it seems that you need to study a little more about cuts....
Yes running slower will give you a more concentrated proof -- because of less water coming over.
I'm pretty sure what you tasted was foreshots and heads because to get Isopropyl alcohol or rubbing alcohol you would have to cook
your wash at 300+ degrees F.
The oily film can be tails but if you look closely at your cups they prolly all have a oily residue its just more so in the tails area.
One more question....what was the proof of the first tastings you and your friends took. High proof hooch is really not that good - I know everybody says they drink 190 proof shine but most of that is stretching the facts. I think we have all tasted it just to say hmmmm but its pretty shitty in most opinions. In fact high proof hooch is poision --really.
I know this did'nt solve your problems but as you continue on its probably a wise choice to use a tried and true recipe in the recipe section because soemone has already worked out all bugs and what is left is something that will make good hooch if stilled properly. I will be happy (as will everybody here) to help you through a good recipe that will make you warm and fuzzy ---just ask."
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"Hi Jack, What heeler said ... and I'll add a few things: -- In the USA, rubbing alcohol, by law, contains acetone, some other stuff that's hard to pronounce  , and ethyl alcohol. The nasties are added to denature the ethyl alcohol (to hopefully prevent people from drinking it ... since the government doesn't tax it the same way as a beverage). -- You may actually be detecting ethyl acetate (which happens to have a boiling point very close to ethOH). Ethyl acetate will give you the same sensations as turpentine and acetone (which is in rubbing alcohol). So, it's very possible that you have lots of ethyl acetate coming across, and due to it's boiling point being so close to that of the good stuff, you're likely to see it smeared through your run. Some of the things that can cause excess ethyl acetate are high fermentation temps, inadequate aeration, and inadequate nutrients (especially in a sugar wash) -- the things that cause yeast stress ... and even an infection (like wild yeast and/or bacteria). If you can describe your recipe, process, and fermentation temps one or more of them might explain what's likely happening. Don't get discouraged though, I'm quite sure most of us have had similar symptoms at one time or another. I've had a wash or two produce a distillate that tasted like you described. Keep working the problem ... but provide more details and I'm sure you'll find the problem. Regards, --JB"
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Rank: Junior Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 4/22/2013(UTC)
Posts: 17
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"Thanks heeler,
I got both recipes off a forum, tried and true they claim. I can't remember if it was this forum or not. I was trying to pick the best recipe for starters so these problems wouldn't arise. What recipe would you recommend for a new fella?
If I can give an example using the above cuts, it would work like this. If I got ten cuts, then the first 3 were heads, the next 4 would be hearts, and the last three would be tails. We take the middle 4 jars for tasting and smelling and would pick the best one of these. We would sample these full strength, what ever that happen to be. Then we would dilute this down to 40% and re-taste. In both of these examples, it would have a rubbing alcohol smell and taste.
Yes, I am still new at making cuts, but feel I am making decent cuts. Regular drip, slow drip, and a fast drip, three different methods. Yet, I can't get the rubbing alcohol smell/taste out.
I have been in Texas all my life. My family came to Texas by way of Mississippi and Georgia, so moonshine always seemed to make it to Texas. It has been about 10 years since I had any from those regions, but it never had this taste or smell.
Thanks again,"
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Rank: Junior Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 4/22/2013(UTC)
Posts: 17
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"Thanks John, Here are the 2 recipes, the first simple sugar, and then a link to UJSSM. The fermentation temps have been held at around 78-80 degrees F. / / If you indeed do decide to get a neutral under ur belt here is a simple stupid recipe for a 25 liter wash that will yield a 10% ABV wash every time all the time. It is a slightly modified birdwatchers recipe:
Ingredients:
10 lbs Sugar (dissolved in hot water)
6oz tomato paste (Yeast Nutrient)
1/3 cup bakers yeast
Instructions:
(1)Dissolve 6 ounces of tomato paste in 5 liters of hot water.
(2)Dissolve 10 pounds of sugar in 10 liters of hot water stiring until all of the sugar is dissolved and not gritty.
(3)Pour the dissolved sugar into the fermenter with the tomato paste.
(4)Top off the fermenter to 25 liters with cold water and stir well.
(5)Once the wash has cooled to 80 degrees Fahrenheit or less add 1/3 cup of bakers yeast and stir well.
(6)Place lid on fermenter add airlock and allow to ferment for 7 to 14 days.
This is the link for UJSSM: http://wiki.homedistille..._Simple_Sour_Mash_MethodI am trying to do good cuts, but ALL the cuts, whatever %ABV have this taste. I know there are many variables to this problem, so I hope I am giving enough correct information about my procedures/recipes so a solution can be found. If that solution is more experience needed, so be it. I will get there. Do you have any recipe suggestions that I may try? Thanks for the help. Ps. I have numerous jars/cuts from these runs that have this taste. Should I dispose of these, or can it be saved?"
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Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 6/4/2010(UTC) Posts: 360   Location: Louisiana
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Originally Posted by: Jack Daniels  Cuts and rubbing alcohol. (long post)
I am still new and have only done three runs, but this "rubbing alcohol" smell/taste is getting the best of me. Let me explain my 3 runs and see if anybody has any ideas for me. I am using a copper pot, Leibeg condenser, and a 15.5 gallon keg. Most of the tasting came from the hearts.
The first run was a 5 gallon simple sugar mash using Fleischman's yeast. Got it up to temp and had the drip rate at about 2-3 drops per second. Threw away the first 1 1/4 cups and started catching in one cup increments. They started around 65% and I stopped at around 30% for a total of 8 jars. I ran the still for about a total of 4 hours after the drops started. I let this air out over night and started the smelling/tasting routine. Full strength or diluted to 40%, they smell and taste like rubbing alcohol. Friends tasted it over the next couple of days, and had the same thoughts as me, rubbing alcohol.
The next run was the first fermentation of UJSSM. I thought that the previous run might have been "smeared", so I decided to slow down on this run. After heating up and the first drops started, I ran it about 1-2 drops a second. The total run this time, was around 7 hours. I collected and threw away the first 1 1/4 cups and started my cuts at about a 1 cup each. I didn't mention this above, but I had a lot of alcohol left over from the first run, so I added it to this run. It was a little over 2 quarts. I started catching at 75-76% and that held true for about four-five cuts. (1 cup per cut) I don't know if the added alcohol from previous run had anything to do with it testing a higher proof? Or if running it slower caused it to produce higher proofs? Or both? I did this until I had 10 cuts (10 jars
1 cup each) and got down around 35% and stopped making cuts. The jars were tasted that day, and the next day after airing out, and still have the rubbing alcohol taste.
The next run was the 2 gen from the UJSSM, without any alcohol from the previous run. I knew I didn't have a lot of time, so I kinda planned a stripping run, sorta. I started my cuts and threw out the first 1 1/4 cups and the first cut was 60%. Lower than I expected, but I didn't add any extra from previous run. As above, I made my cuts in 1 cup increments and caught down to 35%. This gave me 10 cuts (1 cup each), plus I caught some at the end for future runs. Total run time was a little over 2 1/2 hours and the drip rate was a fast drip. Not a stream, but a fairly fast drip. Some friends stopped by and we tasted several jars and agreed it was rubbing alcohol.
Three different runs, three different drip rates, yet same taste.
Does moonshine taste like rubbing alcohol?
Also, at the end of the run, when I get down around 30%, I get this oily film on top of my cuts. I have no idea what this film is?
Thanks in advance for any help. No it should not taste like Rubbing Alcohol. A neutral should taste like Ethanol. Commercial example is Ever Clear. When your distillate starts to get oily I imagine it also smells like wet cardboard? Usually you get oiliness in the tails. Odds are you are not collecting the Fore-shots and heads properly. I could be wrong though.... opinions vary. |
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Rank: Junior Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 4/22/2013(UTC)
Posts: 17
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"Thanks Bayou,
I know I am doing something wrong, but can't figure it out. That was why I tried to provide the most info I could.
I have done a slow drip, regular drip, and a fast drip. The reason for the slower drip was to see if I smeared the cuts, but it was the same. I throw out the first cup, plus a little, then start the cuts, which have averaged about 10-12 cuts before I stop collecting for cuts. I think I am running good temps and giving ample time between cuts, but........
I am throwing everything out, clean and sanitize all equipment, and start over.
IF, big if, but if I am doing things correctly, then I might have screwed up from the start. If my very first fermentation was ""bad"", then this made the future runs bad. The only thing I can think of was saving the heads and tails from the first run and adding them in the second run. Then I took some backwash from this run and added back into the UJSSM. Then I ran this for my third run. IF, the first was bad, then the others were bad from this adding back in. IDK.
Thanks."
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Rank: Senior Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 1/12/2012(UTC)
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Jack,
Based on your description of how you ran your rig, I honestly don't think that's the problem. I've stripped many BW washes, but never used a pot still with BW wash low wines so I wouldn't know what to expect. My BW low wines always go through the column. Regardless, here are some things to try with your next BW wash:
- Sanitize your bucket, lid, and air lock.
- Rather than using 10 L of water to dissolve your sugar, just drop it in your sanitzed bucket and dissolve it with about 2 gallons of boiling water. And let it cool for a bit.
- While your syrup is cooling use just enough water to turn your tomato paste into a thin tomato soup. You should only need two cups of water at most. Add the juice of 1/2 lemon and about 1/8 tsp of epsom salt to your soup & mix everything well. Then dump your soup into the bucket.
- Top of your fermenting bucket to 5 - 6 gallons total. Make sure you use nice cold water from a faucet with a (working) aeration screen. Then give the wash a good stir with a sanitized spoon, mash paddle, or similar.
- Wait for the wash to cool down to room temperature, then pitch your yeast.
- Try to keep your fermenter (and the wash) closer to say, 72 F (or a bit lower) rather than 77 F - 80 F.
When yeast get stressed, they'll produce the stuff that we don't want to drink. The typical things that stress yeast are: too much sugar, low nutrients, improper pH, and high temperatures. The above should help get rid of the typical culprits. The tomato paste provides all of your vitamin B complex stuff (yeast nutrients). Tomato paste is also a bit acidic, so it will bring your pH down a bit. The lemon juice will bring it down a bit further. The epsom salt can bring your pH down a bit, but 1/8 tsp is only about 0.6 gram so it's insignificant compared to the lemon juice. However, the epsom salt provide magnesium for your yeast. Using less hot/boiling water means you can use more cold water to top things off. If you have a decent aeration screen in your faucet, and you use more cold water, you should have plenty of oxygen in your wash for the yeast. Finally, the lower fermentation temperature and sanitary fermenter will complete a friendly enviornment for your yeast.
Anyway, some things to try. In my case it was the fermenting temperature. When I brought the temp down and let the yeast work a little slower I saw a big improvement.
Regards,
--JB
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Rank: Junior Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 4/22/2013(UTC)
Posts: 17
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Thanks John,
We'll give her a go today.
JD
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Rank: Senior Member Groups: Registered, Moderator
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"Jack, do this with your next run, as was suggested ferm temps are very important so keep an eye on that...
as soon as the drip starts collect every drop in small jars, like 1/2 pints and dont fill em all the way up. There will be lots when your done but that way everything will be seperated and you can use your nose to pick out each cut ( there will only be 4 cuts foreshots/heads/hearts and tails) how much of each will depend on several things of which you cant control at this stage of your knowledge, but you will learn with each passing run. There may be 1 jar of foreshots and 5 jars of heads, your nose will tell how much of each. Practice will make perfect. Good luck."
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