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Offline John Barleycorn  
#41 Posted : Thursday, June 20, 2013 12:51:30 PM(UTC)
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I started a white paper that focuses on proposed changes to 26 USC. The intended audience is home distilling hobbyists, politicians, and administrators. The purpose is to identify the specific changes that are required to achieve legalization, and to solicit feedback. Ideally, it would be something that you could hand to a representative and say, "What do you think?" I am purposefully not providing any justification of legalization, only a set of proposed changes to achieve legalization. The justification part is left for later. So Alli, maybe the white paper can partially answer your question about "How the hell do we do this?" The first part is to find out what needs to change.

On another note, I've been thinking a lot lately about the idea of self-policing and whether our community would be willing to police itself. There's another community that came to mind ... to use as an example: amateur radio. I really have to tip my hat to these guys ... at least the old-schoolers. These folks really love their hobby and cherish their privileges. So much so that if they encounter someone among their ranks who violated any of the rules, they would be willing to report the offender. Now, we're not talking about honest mistakes here. And I never heard of a ham reporting another ham without first warning the offender and giving the offender an opportunity to mend their ways. But hams have always been willing to report other hams in the absence of any repentance. Basically, the commuity refuses to let misbehaving individuals jeopardize their cherished privileges.

So I'm curious to know how people feel ... [COLOR="#FF0000"]if home distilling was legal, would you be willing to report those who were intentionally and repeatedly breaking the law?[/COLOR] For example, would you report someone who was making more than the permitted amount and selling it?
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Offline John Barleycorn  
#42 Posted : Thursday, June 20, 2013 1:00:18 PM(UTC)
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"
Quote:
I called the TTB in DC and all I got was a recording (our federal govt. hard at work), so I called the Tampa Office and spoke with a lady who said call your congressman.

Damned, Alli, you've been busy! Good for you!

I think calling the representative is a great idea. I think visiting him while they're in-district would be even better. It's important to know their thoughts on the matter. The simple fact is, we can't introduce legislation, only they can."
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Offline futurenmc  
#43 Posted : Thursday, June 20, 2013 5:45:57 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Alli Go to Quoted Post
All,
How the hell do we do this??
Thanks.
Alli


I feel like our point could get across better if when REPs are contacted we all had the same information to share with them??
Also ...if your not sure who your rep is follow this link http://www.house.gov/representatives/find/ it willpoint you in the right direction
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Offline RCRed  
#44 Posted : Thursday, June 20, 2013 11:03:36 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: John Barleycorn Go to Quoted Post

So I'm curious to know how people feel ... if home distilling was legal, would you be willing to report those who were intentionally and repeatedly breaking the law? For example, would you report someone who was making more than the permitted amount and selling it?
...Wow, JB.. You appeal to the conservative and rebel in me at the same time here.....

I'd have to say, yes, esp. if that person/ppl were making dangerous product, or, conterfieting commercial product. After all, a fool who would do such a thing an brag about it is either trying out for a TV show, or just aching for jail time and helping their mouthpiece afford yet another S class Benz.

I'd report a meth lab as fast as my phone could dial, same for any violent crime I witnessed, or defend the innocent with all my being. That's part of what defines a society, how it cares for it's folks an such. And certain activities are never justified, under any circumstance. As you have said, the community refuses to allow behaviours that threaten it.

On the other hand, I can imagine circumstances where lattitude might be justified, but that'd be rare. For instance, in a disaster situation....earthquake, tornadic activity (A big consideration here), or even a fuel shortage that runs for a month or more - The govt cannot even get a bottle of water into an area for days, and people needed antiseptics, or pain relief, fuel... We are a great people and nation, but as the Maya/Romans/Egyptians/Sumarians learned, societies/civilizations are never too big to fail. And folks are so damn reliant on stores, groceries, pharmacies... Imagine them closed for three weeks to a month. In that case I don't know if reporting would be justified. I know for me, I'd be trying to survive. Cool

Now, once stuff got back to normal, you'd expect folks to return to previously planned programming, but sometimes, folks don't go back to the way things were. They adjust to the new normal. In that senario...we would have to have order and law to keep our societies safe. If things couldn't get back in order, well, laws would be a mute point then any how.

back to the coffee pot... Damn dogs woke me up at 4:30a today chasin coyotes.... You'd a thought I was getting raided from all the commotion, barking and cajoling...I'm surprised I have windows left intact...
Windows DesktopSoftware for home Distillers and AFP Small producers




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Offline Maddawgs  
#45 Posted : Thursday, June 20, 2013 11:24:31 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: John Barleycorn Go to Quoted Post
I started a white paper that focuses on proposed changes to 26 USC. The intended audience is home distilling hobbyists, politicians, and administrators. The purpose is to identify the specific changes that are required to achieve legalization, and to solicit feedback. Ideally, it would be something that you could hand to a representative and say, "What do you think?" I am purposefully not providing any justification of legalization, only a set of proposed changes to achieve legalization. The justification part is left for later. So Alli, maybe the white paper can partially answer your question about "How the hell do we do this?" The first part is to find out what needs to change.

On another note, I've been thinking a lot lately about the idea of self-policing and whether our community would be willing to police itself. There's another community that came to mind ... to use as an example: amateur radio. I really have to tip my hat to these guys ... at least the old-schoolers. These folks really love their hobby and cherish their privileges. So much so that if they encounter someone among their ranks who violated any of the rules, they would be willing to report the offender. Now, we're not talking about honest mistakes here. And I never heard of a ham reporting another ham without first warning the offender and giving the offender an opportunity to mend their ways. But hams have always been willing to report other hams in the absence of any repentance. Basically, the commuity refuses to let misbehaving individuals jeopardize their cherished privileges.

So I'm curious to know how people feel ... if home distilling was legal, would you be willing to report those who were intentionally and repeatedly breaking the law? For example, would you report someone who was making more than the permitted amount and selling it?

Hi JB,
On this one I would have to say that I want to enjoy my hobby leagally but I don't want to be a booze cop. I really don't care if you are making a gallon or 10 gallons. If I knew (and not just suspected) that you were selling or giving it to kids I would first ask you to stop and then tell you I would report you if you didn't. I think that if our hobby does get legalized the opurtunity to sell will quickly dissapear. Once home brewing of beer and fermentation of wine became legal I have never heard of anyone selling what they made, although a great many people happily gave samples away. I would love to see your white paper and hope you post it soon. I agree with futurenmc, we should have all have the same message to give our reps and your white paper may be a good start. The purpose of the current petition is to let congress know that there are people in this country who would like to see home distillation legalized. That is all it does. If you sign and use your real name and address a copy of the petition with your signature is sent to your local rep in congress. The next step if they get the 10000 signatures would be to get the support of a member of congress to put support behind and sponser a bill for legalization. Once that is done it would be our job to get our reps to sign off on the bill to get it passed. You are correct, we can't introduce legislation only our reps can. It is our job to tell them what we want them to do. Maybe some of us could get together and come up with something to give our reps. I would be willing to join up and do some of the work-just send me a pm.
Maddawgs
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Offline Alli  
#46 Posted : Friday, June 21, 2013 3:20:11 AM(UTC)
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"All,
The white paper is great idea. It shuld give us the same place to start with our Congressmen/wonen. Sitting down face to face is critical - phone calls or emails are too easily brushed off as a redneck nut job. I am ready when we have something to present. BTW the lady I spoke with at the TTB office in Tampa did say that she had heard that hobby distilling was getting a lot of attention lately. Not sure what she meant but it sounded possitive.
Alli"
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Offline D10  
#47 Posted : Friday, June 21, 2013 3:42:48 AM(UTC)
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I would be willing to sign and hand my congressman a well written letter on the legalization of home distilling. Please post when done JB. Thanks!
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Offline John Barleycorn  
#48 Posted : Friday, June 21, 2013 7:52:57 AM(UTC)
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Quote:
Please post when done JB.


I posted the initial version of the white paper in a new thread:

http://www.brewhausforum...on&p=27126#post27126
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Offline John Barleycorn  
#49 Posted : Saturday, June 22, 2013 2:55:39 AM(UTC)
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If anyone is interested at taking a stab at a powerpoint presentation, I think something like that would be very useful. I'd be glad to participate, but I don't think I have enough time to take the lead ... but I might be able to do a few slides. The presentation would have to deal with all of the "justification" stuff. Perhaps use the petition as the starting point for content & stay focused on persuading others that home distilling is safe and little more than concentrating the beer & wine that is already legal.
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Offline RCRed  
#50 Posted : Saturday, June 22, 2013 3:54:11 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: John Barleycorn Go to Quoted Post
If anyone is interested at taking a stab at a powerpoint presentation, I think something like that would be very useful. I'd be glad to participate, but I don't think I have enough time to take the lead ... but I might be able to do a few slides. The presentation would have to deal with all of the "justification" stuff. Perhaps use the petition as the starting point for content & stay focused on persuading others that home distilling is safe and little more than concentrating the beer & wine that is already legal.
Heya JB,

I might be able to donate some time to that in late July-August. I've some large projects at work sucking all available oxygen now, but they will be done by mid July. I am pretty good with Powerpoint since I use it like a mechanic uses a socket set... I can offer animated, or standard presentation formats, just depends on what the community would like.

I'd be proud to help using a skill I have already developed (for a change) Cool
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Offline John Barleycorn  
#51 Posted : Saturday, June 22, 2013 8:55:41 AM(UTC)
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Red,

That would be fantastic! Perhaps we can start putting together an outline via PM until then? I think it's important to have a presentation prepared _before_ we find a representative that might take up the cause. I know from experience that once you float an idea, and someone likes it, the first thing they'll ask for is a presentation that they can use to sell the idea upwards.

Regards,
--JB
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Offline John Barleycorn  
#52 Posted : Saturday, June 22, 2013 9:03:27 AM(UTC)
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BTW: Can anyone spare some time to find out who is on the House Ways and Means Committee?

We need to know who is on the committee, what districts they represent, and find some home distillers in their districts who are willing to contact them when the appropriate time comes.

I'm assuming it ended up in Ways and Means since legalization requires changes to the Internal Revenue Code. Stupak's bills H.R. 3249 and H.R. 3949 ended up dying in that committee, so we should be prepared.

--JB
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Offline Hokey  
#53 Posted : Saturday, June 22, 2013 10:18:36 AM(UTC)
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Does this help? I have already signed "the Petition Site" petition and would love to see this effort move forward.

Committee on Ways and Means

Dave Camp, MI, Chairman


Sam Johnson, TX
Kevin Brady, TX
Paul Ryan, WI
Devin Nunes, CA
Pat Tiberi, OH
Dave G. Reichert, WA
Charles W. Boustany Jr., LA
Peter J. Roskam, IL
Jim Gerlach, PA
Tom Price, GA
Vern Buchanan, FL
Adrian Smith, NE
Aaron Schock, IL
Lynn Jenkins, KS
Erik Paulsen, MN
Kenny Marchant, TX
Diane Black, TN
Tom Reed, NY
Todd Young, IN
Mike Kelly, PA
Tim Griffin, AR
Jim Renacci, OH

Sander Levin, MI, Ranking Member
Charles B. Rangel, NY
Jim McDermott, WA
John Lewis, GA
Richard E. Neal, MA
Xavier Becerra, CA
Lloyd Doggett, TX
Mike Thompson, CA
John B. Larson, CT
Earl Blumenauer, OR
Ron Kind, WI
Bill Pascrell Jr., NJ
Joseph Crowley, NY
Allyson Schwartz, PA
Danny Davis, IL
Linda Sánchez, CA

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Subcommittee on Trade

Rep. Devin Nunes, CA, Chairman

Rep. Kevin Brady, TX
Rep. Dave Reichert, WA
Rep. Vern Buchanan, FL
Rep. Adrian Smith, NE
Rep. Aaron Schock, IL
Rep. Lynn Jenkins, KS
Rep. Charles Boustany, LA
Rep. Peter Roskam, IL

Rep. Charles B. Rangel, NY, Ranking Member
Rep. Richard E. Neal, MA
Rep. John Larson, CT
Rep. Earl Blumenauer, OR
Rep. Ron Kind, WI

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Subcommittee on Social Security

Rep. Sam Johnson, TX, Chairman

Rep. Pat Tiberi, OH
Rep. Tim Griffin, AR
Rep. Jim Renacci, OH
Rep. Aaron Schock, IL
Rep. Mike Kelly, PA
Rep. Kevin Brady, TX
Rep. Xavier Becerra, CA, Ranking Member
Rep. Lloyd Doggett, TX
Rep. Mike Thompson, CA
Rep. Allyson Schwartz, PA

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Subcommittee on Oversight

Rep. Charles Boustany, LA, Chairman

Rep. Diane Black, TN
Rep. Lynn Jenkins, KS
Rep. Kenny Marchant, TX
Rep. Tom Reed, NY
Rep. Erik Paulsen, MN
Rep. Mike Kelly, PA

Rep. John Lewis, GA, Ranking Member
Rep. Joseph Crowley, NY
Rep. Danny K. Davis, IL
Rep. Linda Sánchez, CA

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Subcommittee on Health

Rep. Kevin Brady, TX, Chairman

Rep. Sam Johnson, TX
Rep. Paul Ryan, WI
Rep. Devin Nunes, CA
Rep. Peter Roskam, IL
Rep. Jim Gerlach, PA
Rep. Tom Price, GA
Rep. Vern Buchanan, FL
Rep. Adrian Smith, NE

Rep. Jim McDermott, WA, Ranking Member
Rep. Mike Thompson, CA
Rep. Ron Kind, WI
Rep. Earl Blumenauer, OR
Rep. Bill Pascrell, NJ

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Subcommittee on Human Resources

Rep. Dave Reichert, WA, Chairman

Rep. Todd Young, IN
Rep. Mike Kelly, PA
Rep. Tim Griffin, AR
Rep. Jim Renacci, OH
Rep. Tom Reed, NY
Rep. Charles Boustany, LA
Rep. Lloyd Doggett, TX, Ranking Member
Rep. John Lewis, GA
Rep. Joseph Crowley, NY
Rep. Danny K. Davis, IL
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Subcommittee on Select Revenue Measures

Rep. Pat Tiberi, OH, Chairman

Rep. Erik Paulsen, MN
Rep. Kenny Marchant, TX
Rep. Jim Gerlach, PA
Rep. Aaron Schock, IL
Rep. Tom Reed, NY
Rep. Todd Young, IN

Rep. Richard E. Neal, MA, Ranking Member
Rep. John Larson, CT
Rep. Allyson Schwartz, PA
Rep. Linda Sánchez, CA

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Assignment of Members to the Committee on Budget
Rep. Paul Ryan, WI
Rep. Tom Price, GA
Rep. Diane Black, TN
Rep. Bill Pascrell, NJ
Rep. Charles B. Rangel, NY

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Assignment of Members to the Joint Committee on Taxation
Rep. Dave Camp, MI
Rep. Sam Johnson, TX
Rep. Kevin Brady, TX
Rep. Sander Levin, MI
Rep. Charles B. Rangel, NY

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Official Advisors to the U.S. Delegations for International Conference Meetings
Rep. Dave Camp, MI
Rep. Sam Johnson, TX
Rep. Devin Nunes, CA Rep. Sander Levin, MI
Rep. Charles B. Rangel, NY
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Offline RCRed  
#54 Posted : Saturday, June 22, 2013 12:02:17 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: John Barleycorn Go to Quoted Post
Red,

That would be fantastic! Perhaps we can start putting together an outline via PM until then? I think it's important to have a presentation prepared _before_ we find a representative that might take up the cause. I know from experience that once you float an idea, and someone likes it, the first thing they'll ask for is a presentation that they can use to sell the idea upwards.

Regards,
--JB
Sure!! And believe me, I know all about having a presentation to sell an idea :) IMLOW, i use specially crafted PPt's to convey techincal concepts to CIO's and accountants to justify expenditure, forecast ROI, and a ton of other crap. I look forward to helping!!
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Offline futurenmc  
#55 Posted : Monday, July 01, 2013 6:40:45 PM(UTC)
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Has anyone read "MAKING PURE CORN WHISKEY" by Ian Smiley BSc. I feel like his wording in certain parts of his book would be a perfect candidate for keeping things professional and such. Also it is a good read to get ideas and such. quick quote "So distillation is not a mysterious subject, nor is it threatening. It is as commonplace as a rain-shower or a teakettle boiling and causing condensation on a nearby window."

Just thought i mention it.
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