 Rank: Junior Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 2/1/2013(UTC)
Posts: 77
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"I have been reading through the legalization posts for quite some time. For me it has been a great source of information and I have seen great strides made in the creation of informative documentation. One thing that I have noticed is that we are a group of people that have grown accustom to keeping most of what we are doing very secretive and we approach the idea of fighting for legalization from a great distance. Fighting without success can lead to a big loss for those that get involved in a public manner. On the other side, not fighting only keeps us hidden and constantly looking over our shoulders. So we seem to approach this with gloved hands.
I have been wondering how we can approach this in a manner that will help protect our identities, yet give us a platform to fight on. I think the answer is in 'flooding the market'. If we can get large groups of people, who are not involved in the distillation process, to also take up this fight it would be difficult to tell who is currently practicing and who is fighting based on principles. I think that group of people would be the people that currently make wine and beer legally. They understand the fight. They understand idea of the hobbyist. And they understand how difficult it is to legalize.
Is there anyone who can create a flyer that will allow people to view the documentation that has been created, links to these threads, and information that will help them get involved in the fight, even though they do not practice the hobby? We could then distribute those flyers to the various brewing supply shops, microbreweries, and other gathering points for these type of people. We could also distribute this information at many of the political groups that are claiming to fight for the individual rights and smaller government. This could be a nation wide thing that we could all do. I would certainly print off mass quantities and distribute them in Wyoming, Colorado, and South Dakota. It could increase our numbers and flood the market with people that do and do not distill making it much harder to track those involved. I would think the beer and wine supply stores would be happy to allow these to be displayed on their message boards. If this gets legalized, it is another market they will be set up to supply to as well.
Just a thought,
Blaztaz"
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 Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 6/15/2013(UTC)
Posts: 179
Was thanked: 2 time(s) in 2 post(s)
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"Blaztaz,
Thanks for your comments - of course you are correct when you say that we are approaching this fight with gloved hands but we are also approaching it with blindfolds on. The TTD action letter did two things; it got a few people strired up enough to come up with a fine piece of legislation that will fix the problem if we can get it passed and it also effectively drove the majority of the hobbyest further under ground than they were before. I would come out of the closet (so to speak) in a heart beat if I thought several thousand people would follow, but from what I have seen so far, I would be all alone and one person does not a movement make. There have been half a dozen folks agree (on this forum) to contact their congressional representatives, but so far there has been no report on the outcome of these contacts - mine included.
There are a lot of issues with this fight. 1) No one wants to actually do the work, they would rather sit back and let others stick their necks out. 2) We don't really know what the TTB would do if they showed up in one of our garages and found a still and 4 quarts of freshly distilled spirits; they MIGHT try to confiscate your equipement and your house and your first born. They MIGHT try to make some sort of example of you whatever that means. Or they MIGHT look like a bunch of idiots as long as you did not have 500 gallons of moonshine sitting on a pallet awaiting shipment. There is a case in Charlottesville VA recently where a bunch of ABC agents strongarmed and arrested a 20 year old UVA student for buying alcohol under age - unfortunately for the agents all she had in the bag was sparkling water - 0% ABV. That case is not over yet. 3) We have no idea what the TTB plans to do with the list of some 90,000 people that bought distilling equipment online in the past 3 years. Maybe they just want the information in case they they have a case of someone selling untaxed booze - kind of like the reason the NSA said they needed everyones phone records. 4) How much resistance can we expect from the liquor distributor's lobby if our legslation actually got out there? In a nut shell, there is a hell of a lot more that we don't know than we do know.
Has anyone ever tried to contact the TTB? I called the main office in DC and got a recording. I called the office in Tampa (I think) and talked to a nice lady who told me there was not anyone in the office that I could speak with - maybe true, maybe not. If anyone lives near a TTB office and feels frisky, walk in and ask to speak to an agent and ask him/her what they plan to do with all those names and addresses- hide your still and invite them to come for a look-see. Please report anything you find of interest. Does anyone know who the agent is that started this demend letter from the TTB in the first place?
Blaztaz - would you be interested in starting a draft of the flyier you suggested above? It can't be too long or no one will read it.
Alli"
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Rank: Junior Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 2/1/2013(UTC)
Posts: 77
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It will take me some time, but I can try to draft something. I understand what you are saying by sticking your neck out. Although we all would like to see these laws changed, or defeated completely, I am not sure that even a few thousand people coming together will help us in our plight. Maybe a few thousand in each State would help, but with everyone being so sporadically thrown across the country, a few thousand in the scope of things doesn't seem that big. I was surprised that we didn't even get 10,000 signatures on the petition. This again could have been because people don't want to put their names out there. I know there are several movements throughout this country to try and remove government involvement in our rights. It seems to me that those rights (distillation included) were never something the government had a right to restrict or remove in the first place. But that is a whole different battle. How do we undo what has been done? We need more than a few thousand. We need masses. Until the people that control our lives through our government get a bigger response from us, they are completely happy to keep what they have taken.
I will see what I can draft for a flyer. Is there a short link I can put on there? What should I include so it does not become overwhelming?
Thanks,
Blaztaz
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