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#1 Posted : Friday, April 21, 2006 9:54:29 AM(UTC)
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ok, reflux distilled with pro extracter 2, first time, commercial vodka smells like rubbing alcohol side by side with mine. mine is aromatic, doesn't taste sweet, but smells sweet, what is wrong? if i distill it again will it go away or is this something else? i never got greedy, heck i quit way before just to be sure, barely got a gallon. but smells sweet?
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#2 Posted : Friday, April 21, 2006 1:33:00 PM(UTC)
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Have you carbon filtered?
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#3 Posted : Friday, April 21, 2006 3:50:19 PM(UTC)
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yes i did, but do you know what the smell is? It's hard to describe. We also tried a rum essence and it was horrible, nothing close to rum.
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#4 Posted : Saturday, April 22, 2006 1:25:00 AM(UTC)
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There are so many variables that without more information I can only throw guesses at you. What proof was your distillate? What method of carbon filtration did you use, and how quickly did you filter? Was the product diluted prior to filtration? What type of carbon was used? These answers should get us pointed in the right direction at least.
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#5 Posted : Tuesday, April 25, 2006 5:56:20 AM(UTC)
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Okay, I'm getting some conflicting signals here that need sorted out. Everyone on here seems to expound the virtues of carbon filtering at great length. My first run through, I was EXTREMELY careful, yet I only hit 90%, and still found it necessary to use activated charcoal to clean up the aroma after distilling.

However, in John Stone's <u>Making Gin &amp; Vodka</u>, he states that pure alcohol produced from a fractioning column 'should not require 'cleaning up' because all the unpleasant things have been removed in the distillation process.' Of course, the fractioning column he refers to in this case is the Nixon-Stone offset-head design.

I was told by Brewhaus that their column, 'due to its height, generally comes into equilibrium extremely quickly- literally by the time that you have pulled off the first 1/4-1/2 cup', and I have no reason do doubt this, but I wonder why I still have to use activated charcoal. Either:

a, I did something incorrectly, and should be doing more to get from 90% to 96%
b, John Stone was not correct.
c, This still design combined with the 1100W boiler is inefficient for producing straight ethanol compared to the offset-head design.

As to item ,a,, this is entirely possible. It was my first run, however I went through the instructions as to the operation of the still as close to established sources as I was able. The temperature began to rise, I turned on cooling water, threw out the amount that smelled like solvent, and collected until the temperature in the stillhead began to rise, getting nearly four liters of 90% alcohol from 25 liters of sugar/water/turbo yeast wash.

As to item ,b,, I would mention that Stone makes the distinction between what he calls pure ethanol and 'moonshine'; moonshine being an alcohol purification of imperfect separation created from a similar wash. This latter contains off flavors while pure ethanol does not ,at least, according to him,. If these off flavors Greg and I are getting are due in any way to impurities in the ethenol, are we doing something wrong and falling short of the 95-96% level or ,c,, is the Pro Series II somehow less efficient than a valved reflux design?

If ,c, is the case, I could certainly understand some sacrifices being made for the sake of speed of distillation, the slack of which to be taken up later by activated charcoal, but if so this is something I would have liked to have known before purchasing my still, and it may have made the difference between my immediate purchase of this design and a request for more information or perhaps even customization.

All of this being said, there seem to be some indications that something new is coming from Brewhaus in the near future. If this is a valved design, I would gladly, GLADLY buy it from them. Do you guys have a trade-in program? UserPostedImage
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#6 Posted : Tuesday, April 25, 2006 7:09:00 AM(UTC)
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I'm sure others can add a bit but here is my experience. You can not judge when to stop collecting by temperature if you want a completely clean product. Sounds like you have the starting point down pretty good. The worse seems to come from the last part of collecting. I usually notice a smell shortly before the temp actually starts rising and it only takes a little of that smelly part to funk up the rest if it's mixed in with it. I collect a little over a pint at a time and only keep the cleanest smelling jars. I watch the temp but I go more by smell. I only test percentage once in a while to verify things are as they should be. The middle cuts are usually 95 - 96&#43;%. Hope this helps.
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#7 Posted : Tuesday, April 25, 2006 12:17:00 PM(UTC)
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I think you will find most people will tell you that even at the 95.6% maximum achievable through distillation, carbon filtration is a must. Maybe some are less picky, but there is a reason that all ultra premium vodka's are carbon filtered. Pure ethanol certainly has no off smells or tastes- it is pure. Pure ethanol also cannot be reached simply by distillation.

As a first run, 90% is relatively good. Most find they will improve as they get used to their system, but certainly 95% is not out of the question with our Pro Series II unit and the 1100W hotplate. It is a matter of matching the heat and cooling. The column packing also plays a big role in this.

As for what is coming, I cannot answer that specifically. I can, however, say that we have a couple of things that have been in the works for nearly two years now, which should be on the market soon.
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#8 Posted : Tuesday, April 25, 2006 12:30:16 PM(UTC)
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Alright, that's fair. Could you elaborate a bit on what you mean by 'a matter of matching the heat and cooling' and what you mentioned about the column packing?

In my system, I was cooling directly with water from my sink ,which is frigid,. It is then split in a T, one of which goes to the column, one to the condenser. Both are valved, but I have run it only with both valves open. The emerging distillate was room temperature or slightly cool. I have many books on the subject, but they are no substitute for good advice from someone who's been doing it for awhile. What do I need to to to obtain optimum 'matching' ,as you put it, of heating and cooling?

Also, my column packing is copper mesh which I have rolled into plugs exactly as instructed.
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#9 Posted : Tuesday, April 25, 2006 2:37:00 PM(UTC)
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Just my 2 cents worth here, but if you're looking to maximize your ethanol ,ETOH, production, then you might be better off looking into laboratory grade equipment and procedures. Don't get me wrong, or misinterpret me, I'm not slamming or belittling anything, just adding a few words. If you are truly trying to achieve ETOH in the 95% range, then you're going to have to resign yourself to some tight tolerances ,temp, %abv in the output, etc.,. If you are trying to make the strongest drink you can muster, then you're already up there. I can't imagine there are many people in the world that can taste the difference between 90% and 95% ETOH, no matter what the wash consisted of. Granted some will be 'stronger' than others, but therein lies the purpose of the carbon filtering, to remove the off smell and taste ,though this is usually AFTER the distillate is 'cut' to the 90-100 proof range,. If you're dripping out 93%&#43; ETOH and aren't satisfied with it, drop me a line. I'll gladly take that off your hands, unless you want to run it a second time to purify it even more.

I personally run something in the 88 - 94% abv range ,depending on my impatience and speed of heating, through a non valved reflux column design. Then I typically cut it to 100 proof ,measured, for my sippin' whiskey and maybe a bit lighter for the ladies. I haven't really tried carbon filtering yet, but I plan to with my next run. I understand that it takes out all the 'foul' flavors and smells...not that I have any in the first place.

Best of luck to ya, happy sippin.
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#10 Posted : Tuesday, April 25, 2006 2:51:00 PM(UTC)
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Basically, if you have too much heat for the amount of cooling, you cannot control all of the vapor that is being sent up the column, reducing your reflux rate and ultimately your purity. Too much cooling for your heat input will force all vapor to be refluxed, and you will produce nothing. I am guessing that if you had colder water, your purity would improve.

Also, many customers find that they have an easier time obtaining higher purity with ceramic Raschig Rings than with copper mesh. This is in part due to the consistency in packing density throughout the entire column, as well as the more defined void space. In addition, the porous rings have a much higher surface area than a similarly sized glass ring, which is what the ratio is generally gauged on. Copper certainly has distinct advantages, but so do ceramic Raschig Rings.
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#11 Posted : Tuesday, April 25, 2006 3:45:22 PM(UTC)
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Rich - The main reason I was shooting for that extra 5% was to see if it would make a difference in the amount of smell-causing agents I got. I agree, you really can't taste the difference between 90% ethanol and 95% ethanol.

Rick - Raschig rings, you say? Very well. I'll buy some from ya then. Also, if I were to put a little copper in the column to scrub out some of the congeners, where would the best place to put it be? Top or bottom of the column?
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#12 Posted : Tuesday, April 25, 2006 4:15:00 PM(UTC)
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I should have added in my previous post that I first do a stripping run and carbon filter. The filtering if done right really can not be eliminated if you want a very pure and clean tasting product.I even filter my 96% though it is already so clean that it only makes a marginal diferance. For my own drinking I wouldn't bother with filtering as I'm quite happy without but for presentation to friends it's amust and I do love to share. Everything I mentioned though is for a cheap sugar mash. I also brew beer and sometimes make a wonderful DME and specialty grain run that I will not even reflux let alone filter. I can't wait to taste some of it after some years on oak. That is some really good stuff. Same with the brandies from home made wine. I distill my own for quality. Saving money is nice but I'm more about getting a better product than I can even get close to affording to buy. When you can toss back a bunch of your own cheap sugar mash vodka only tasting the chaser or mixer if any and not feel a thing from it the next day then you know you are succesful . I watch the temp closely but smell is my most important guideline and comes into play before I even get to the filtering. As for temps, anything below 78 or above 79 according to my thermometer placement always get thrown back in for another run along with some slightly smelly stuff that come off within that range. I enjoy running my still, It trully is a hobbie and I enjoy the results even more of course. If I were more about quanity and profits from selling which for me do not enter into the equsion then things would certainley be done with less scrutiny and more eficiency. I use an extracter II with 100 watt plate, copper mesh and frozen drink bottle cooled water that I will allow to get up to 70 &#43; degrees before changing bottles to achieve these results. I did add 'elbows' to reduce cooling line kinking and two valves with tees to completley switch all flow from reflux to final condenser only or anywhere in between that I desire. I also employ the use of a fan on low that blow across a coil of garden hose wraped around fence wire that carries the cooling water into the resevoir.The air after that blows lightly but steadily on my column for additional cooling. Probably overkill in design but was cheap easy and works like a dream. As for a difference in taste from 90 to 95%, it is night and day to me and most people I know personally. Then again I live in the south eastern US among many old moonshiners, opinions and hard critics. lol Only one has ever complained about my sugar wash and no one about my grain. The complaint about my sugar wash was it had no flavor. lol Most responses are of amazement butI owe that more to this list, the still design and Tony's? site than to my own creativeness.
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#13 Posted : Tuesday, April 25, 2006 4:33:00 PM(UTC)
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Hmm, plenty of typos there but the only important one is 1100 watt instead of 100 watt plate of course.
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