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When Gary (on newdistillers
yahoogroups) asked what it would cost to get a distiller's license in Massachusetts, I thought it might be interesting to compare the fees that each state charges to get a manufacturer's distillery license. This is not an in-depth scientific survey and I in no way guarantee accuracy, however I did attempt to look at the website of each alcohol authority in every state. In a number of cases, the websites were either difficult to follow or did not explain the differences in license types and I had to call the authority and ask an agent my questions to be sure I was on the right track. Katie in Iowa went so far as to send me a description of the various licenses she had prepared to send out to anyone interested in opening a distillery in Iowa. The only questions I asked were: 1) is a state license required, 2) how much in the application fee and the annual fee, 3) is a surety bond required and if so how much, 4) I added any comments that I thought interesting. Here is what I think I learned:

1) The fees are all over the map from $10/yr. in Kansas to $9,000/yr. in Massachusetts. I have no idea where the fee structures came from or what is driving them.

2) This is significant - Many states are moving toward micro or craft distilleries as a tactic to encourage new businesses and jobs. Many of the micro type licenses carry specific stipulations - in West Virginia a micro distillery must buy at lest 25% of all of their natural ingredients from producers/suppliers in West Virginia. Most micro type licenses allow for limited production of spirits that range from 20,000 to 30,000 proof gallons per year. This makes good economic sense for every state, so while you are waiting for your congressman in DC to call you back on legalization, call you state representative and tell them to get on the band wagon with micro distilleries that carry very low permit fees.

3) The fees in many states make legal licensing very affordable if you choose to go the legal route. Craft or micro licenses are a win-win for everyone and if your state has or is considering this new law, that will make it even more affordable for the hobbyist. The TTB License cost nothing but the minimum $5000 bond - I called my insurance agent yesterday and a 4 year bond in $46/yr. The most expensive pain in the ass will be your state requirements/fees.

4) The primary focus of the TTB is taxation. All they want is your $13.50 per gallon of booze. State laws are as much or more geared toward enforcement of all the things you can't do as apposed to what you can do. Many states have stand alone alcohol beverage control agencies while others are part of the state police or revenue department. Most state offices are understaffed - of the 12 or so states I called, only 2 actually answered the phone; for the rest I had to leave a message. All eventually called me back.

5) More and more states are starting to add background checks and fingerprint cards to the application process. From where I sit, I suppose that is a good idea. The felons that can't pass the background are not going to file an application anyway, so I am not sure how much good it will do.

6) While I believe that our primary goal is to legalize hobby distilling at the national level, there will still be the individual states to deal with. There are a million laws out there about alcohol use, but if we can get the TTB laws changed to coincide with hobby/home beer and wine laws, the states may be more easily convinced to go along.

Hope some find this interesting and helpful. If not just hit the delete key.

Alli"

OK, I apologize if I mislead anyone but I was given incorrect info from the TTB on their bond requirements. I was initially told that the minimum bond was $5,000 and that is not all of the story. When filling out TTB form 5112.56 Distilled Spirits Bond application I called the TTB office in Cincinnati to double check and got the following: You apply for what they call a UNIT Bond. It includes a Distillers bond ($5000), a Warehouseman bond ($5000), a Processors bond ($5000) and a Withdrawal bond ($1000) for a total of $16,000. I called 2 bond companies and was told to expect to pay $150 to $200 per year for this sucker. As the old saying goes, everything that seems to good to be true usually is. Sorry if I confused anyone. Alli

Yea, Ali, that's pretty reasonable, actually.. My quotes here from Farmer's were a tad higher..Not to mention the fact I have to insure the barn (plant) differently as well.

The online app never went anywhere for me. My Paper app took 7.5 months to come back. I stopped everything till I got that back. Heck, I even filed my January TTB form with 0 gallons and a little note saying It's took 85% of 2013 to receive the permit, so I wasn't going to commence operations till '14... So, I wrote DistilliTraK while I was awaitin'....

The Barn is a steel building, insulated, heated and cooled, 110/220 runs. Right now, she's insured as an agriculture extension which is changing to an industrial rider. That is going to cost more, but not exceedingly so.

Yep, I know... Got a repository all built with PDF scans of the docs and stored in my product... In the owner profile area, I have attachment storage built in so you can store any number or types of documents.

To be fair.. They called me once after about 5 months wait. I was told then they had had staff cuts due to sequestration, and were about 3-5 months behind. It took another two months. They had questions about the dwelling and plat of the building from the public access. It turned out they also had a question about why I had tried online but stopped. I took the time to inform then that there is no "N/A" button on that app for AFP small bond requirements, and so I went the paper method.

So.. For those of you just starting that walk - take heed, one way or the other(paper form or online), but not both.

Here's the link that I found on the TTB's website on submitting a sample:

http://www.ttb.gov/ssd/beverage_alcohol.shtml

If you look on the main page of the website over on the far right hand side, you'll find links that say "how do I ?". The VABC has their own requirements that are alot more strict than the federal government's requirements are. The agent I spoke to said that alot of the laws he has to enforce are completely unnessecary and he ignores alot of them. Basically what I'm saying is that politicians pull the money card alot when it comes to home distilling in general no matter what size operation you have. The religeon card gets pulled alot to, but I shot that down in no time basically.

Anybody who wants to try DistilliTraK can have it - for free even... right now...go to the DT site, downloads page, use the beta discount code and get a copy of Home Pro and have at it.

Over the past two months I was lucky enough to be contacted by two micro distilleries about using it. The "professional" version I am now "Fermenting" has document repositories for all the monthly and daily recording. I just don't talk about it here because;

[LIST=1]

This is a home distiller's site

There has been such low interest from this site on the product (Based upon referral hits over the past three months and normalized for traffic differences between the three distilling sites I am featuring this on).
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I also want to proffer to you folks that when using government websites, remember they are built by companies that bid to the lowest bidder and the way they make bids so low is to use offshore labor, and inept most times at that.. so you end up with stupid conflicts on web forms because the abstract thinking skills of 2 year tech school grads just isn't honed yet. Other examples include HealthCrash.gov and we ALL know how well that one went...

Sorta like my distillin' skills up agin JB or Scotty or Heeler - I am navel lint compared to their abilities until I've put in the time, effort and repetition that they have. But what I have is superior skill at is studying process and replicating with code what can be done programatically. Not because I was born with it, but because I have honed that skill for 30+ years. And I have survived 10+ purges at my company by using that skill.

In order to help end the confusion a bit let me explain what I was told by the TTB about the sample process which comes up alot when license fees and requirements are brought up.
The state:
Yes. A sample is more than likely required when you're going for a distiller's license in your state respectively. In fact, I don't know of any state that doesn't require a sample off hand, I'd have to look.

Federal:
A definate maybe. Wether they elect to have you submit a sample or not is entirely up to them. They do have a list of spirits that require a sample to be submitted. Wether it's a one time sample or on a regular basis depends on what you're planning on making. It's entirely up to them.

Final Thoughts:
I can see the purpose of it, but I don't think it's really nessecary unless certain circumstances apply. If they ask for me to submit one, then all I can really do is ask why and comply because refusing to cooperate can get your license voided. After all you did spend money to get that license and I don't see anyone not protecting their investment.