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Offline johnnyapplepie  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, April 08, 2014 1:27:12 PM(UTC)
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I've been making UJSSM for well over a year even making several generations. I've always had a successful ferment and successful spirits. I just as of March 23rd started a new ferment of making it the same way I always have. However when I checked it tonight it looked done. I used my scale and it read 0.099 so that tells me it's ready. I racked it out of my fermenter into smaller ale pal's (4 of those to be exact). I noticed that the mash had a different smell. A smell like vinegar. Is my nose jacked up or is there something going on? This mash typically takes about 4 weeks to complete. Not the case here. I noticed that the mash was pretty cool, not cold but cool. My fermenter is in my bedroom closet. Since it's recently gotten warmer here I've had my havoc unit off for several weeks now. I thinking maybe that was the problem. What do I need to do with this mash? Run it or toss it? I'm torn and confused.
Offline dieselduo  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, April 09, 2014 12:34:44 AM(UTC)
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what was the OG ?when I make UJSSM it usually only takes about 5days. I would run it.It prolly just finished faster due to warmer temps
Offline johnnyapplepie  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, April 09, 2014 1:28:04 AM(UTC)
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I've done a lot of reading this morning and it appears for it to turn to vinegar several processes have to take place plus and introduction to bacteria. The only time my fermenter was open was once to add yeast, another time to make sure it had started working (which it had) and three to check on it a few days ago. Most of the time I can smell it working and hear it working it sounds like Rice Krispies in there. I did both smell it and hear it early on.

dieselduo I'd have to check my logbook when I get home but guessing from my past ferments I'd say in the neighborhood of 1.050 -/+. It very well could be due to the warmer weather, I hope that's the case. I guess i'm just surprised that it finished this quickly. I'm going to run a 6 gallon batch this week maybe tonight and see what the outcome will be. Thanks for the reply.
Offline John Barleycorn  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, April 09, 2014 4:05:06 AM(UTC)
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"
Originally Posted by: johnnyapplepie Go to Quoted Post
A smell like vinegar.


Johnny,

Sounds like some sort of acetic acid bacteria got in there.

You mention you ""started a new ferment"" which I assume is a first generation without backset? This may cause your pH to be considerably higher ... which may have made things more hospitable for certain bacteria? I know they can handle low pH, but the backset may offer some added protection if the pH is brought down enough.

You might want to think about everything/anything that was different during the process ... even something like working near an open window ... or using different grain ... fruit flies ... or even a simple ""oops"" that you brushed off ... anything that might help you isolate the source. It's possible that the source has always been present, but certain conditions allowed the bacteria to get started."
Offline johnnyapplepie  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, April 09, 2014 6:51:03 AM(UTC)
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Thats right John Barleycorn, It was a new ferment so it would have been generation 1. As far as backset goes I had two gallon milk jugs of frozen backset which I thawed and boiled and added over my corn and sugar. I stirred it and let it set for a while. I'll have to admit though that this was the first time that i've ever used frozen backset to re-use later. That is the only thing different that I did. I did a very through job cleaning my fermenter before hand because i'm frugal like that. I pretty much mixed it up in my bedroom closet. (I have a huge walk-in closet). There aren't any windows in my closet, I used the same corn that i've used with past ferments. same yeast. No flies still a bit cold for them here. I think the conditions of the temperature inside my closet is what contributed to this issue that and maybe bad backset. Thinking back I've had my heat/air unit off now for about three weeks. It's been warm with really cool/cold nights. So maybe the fluctuation of the temperature was the culprit.

So John Barleycorn in your mentor professional opinion would you run it or toss it?
What would happen if i ran it with some sort of acetic bacteria since there is no real way to know if it truly had been infected.
I know when in doubt pour it out.
If i knew how to upload a photo i'd show you the wash.
Offline johnnyapplepie  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, April 09, 2014 7:08:59 AM(UTC)
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[ATTACH=CONFIG]958[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]959[/ATTACH]

Here are a couple of photos. If this works for me.
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Offline John Barleycorn  
#7 Posted : Thursday, April 10, 2014 12:31:29 AM(UTC)
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"I can't say for sure what I'd do, but I would probably run it ... because I'm curious by nature. And besides, if it was actually an infection that produced vinegar you can write it off as a cleaning run. :) However, I am quite sure that I would toss the distillate if I had any doubts at all ... I just don't know enough about the chemistry.

BTW: Since you boiled the backset I would be surprised if that was the source of an infection."
Offline johnnyapplepie  
#8 Posted : Monday, April 14, 2014 8:12:32 AM(UTC)
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**Update**
I ran 6 gallons this past Friday evening. I ran it in pot mode medium speed (stripping run). It made alcohol. I got a little over two quarts of everything but fores. To which i used to build a small fire in the fire pit. So Sunday I ran the remaining 15 gallons (stripping of course) again it's alcohol. I'm going to plan a spirit run one evening this week. I'm glad that I didn't pour it out. Still puzzles me how fast it finished. All I can guess is the warmer days sped it up a bit.
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