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Determining cuts after airing out 48 hrs.
Rank: Junior Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/17/2014(UTC) Posts: 74
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"So I ran a SW wash about 4 gal on Monday. Ended up with 16 6 oz. jars. covered each with paper towel and set up on shelf. Now at 48 hours I started in the middle and smelled jars to the left and right of center. The foreshots jar was easy to detect. the difference in heads to hearts (middle of run) not able to smell anything but the alcohol. The final 2 to 3 jars (#14,15,16) have a very slightly different smell, but nothing like the wet cardboard or sock smell that some report. Are the different smells very subtle? I was expecting a big slap in the face smell of tails. And I honestly cant tell the difference in heads to hearts. Any suggestions are appreciated. B."
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Rank: Senior Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 1/12/2012(UTC) Posts: 804
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Did you dilute? If not, try taking a tablespoon's worth out of the jar and dilute it. Don't worry so much about accurately diluting ... just try to get it down to 30% or so. If it's a bit higher or lower, no big deal. It should help your nose quite a bit. After a while, you'll start picking up aromas easier at higher abv. since you're nose and brain will have the necessary training and repetitions. Same goes for the palate.
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Rank: Senior Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 11/15/2012(UTC) Posts: 720
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Heya Bwash...
Also, did you take alchohometer reads along the way during the run? I can usually tell tails is coming by the drop in my parrot readings.. I put a little white dot on that jar and later I know where I "thought" taiLs was starting so I can zero in better. Two days later is a long time to try and remember a momentary smell or taste as a run is progressin'... :)
In SF washes, the aromatic flavor notes can mask the transition, especially in small 6 oz containers.. I am assuming spirit run here since it wasn't stated..
Heed ye what JB has told thee, it works well :)
Cheers |
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Rank: Junior Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/17/2014(UTC) Posts: 74
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Thanks for the replies. John, I will do a dilution and retest today. My untrained nose just isn't able to detect the slight differences. The last 3 jars had the different odor which I attributed to tails. proof was 84,80, 78. After 48 hours, I could see a thin white crystal floating on top. These went into feints jar. Heads end was a mystery. Red, I took a reading on each 6 oz jar as they came off. Once I set the heat to a level the output stayed fairly constant until the end of the run. There was a significant drop in proof in first 3 jars then the proof dropped at a constant rate throughout the rest of the run. The temp did stabilize at the 180F mark and again at the 195F mark, then slowly started to rise. Last jar was at 204F and at that point I shut it down. First pass spirit run. My intention was to do a slow run to keep some of the flavors Really appreciate the feedback, and looking forward to the next run (2nd half of ferment) B.
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Rank: Senior Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 11/15/2012(UTC) Posts: 720
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Jes for SnG's.. what is your local H2O boil temp? (depending, you may not be at 212 F - mine is 207 this time of year..)
At 195, it's prolly getting on to tails. Those periods of temp stabilization's are points in the run.. How slowly we creep (or allow the wash to do it) into them determines if there's smear of the previous faction into the new zone. So, as a "hint" I watch my temps and my EtOH readin's and make notations on the jars.. I still do not sort anything out for 48 hours till the angels have had their share... :)
Depending, you will be able to taste the diff between last jar and last jar -3 - Those will be fairly diluted as they are. When I started I did all manner of things.. Spoon tests, drops over my fingers and rubbin' them and smelling the left over, watching how long it evaporated, blowing up ant hills with fores or heads I wasn't sure of, etc...Mostly outa curiosity (this is supposed to be fun, yes?), but I'd read all these different ways in literature and books and thus I wanted to try them all to find what I use. |
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Rank: Junior Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/17/2014(UTC) Posts: 74
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Red, I checked the temp guage when I boiled water for the rig cleaning. It read just a hair over 210, so I figured it was accurate. Its a brewing thermometer that came on a pot I purchased. I know a lot of folks say thermometers are of no use on a pot still, but I found the temp plateaus on the run interesting and assumed the temps were holding due to the boiling points of the different elements in the wash. I have read so many posts about wild temp swings ( probably reflux stabilization) and my run was tame and predictable. I did taste the last jar and was surprised that it tasted slightly sweet and no bitterness or funky taste. At 48 hrs, I noticed the thin white crystals on top and took that as a sure sign of tails. I will try the dilution method John mentioned and maybe some finger rubbing. I definitely need some more tricks to determine the proper cut points. Thanks again for the help. B
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Rank: Senior Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 11/15/2012(UTC) Posts: 720
Was thanked: 11 time(s) in 11 post(s)
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Ok, the next time .. take a pan of water on the stovetop... Heat it to a boil - but - take a temp reading just as the bubbles start to rise - It's a environmental thing - humidity, baro pressure, etc.. these effect the local H2O boiling temp. And it shifts a bit over the course of a year... I was amazed to see my area was 6 degree's shy of 212 (Winter), summer it's closer to 210 (like now)...
I'll try and find where I read that... |
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Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 6/1/2012(UTC) Posts: 157
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" Originally Posted by: Backwash So I ran a SW wash about 4 gal on Monday. Ended up with 16 6 oz. jars. covered each with paper towel and set up on shelf. Now at 48 hours I started in the middle and smelled jars to the left and right of center. The foreshots jar was easy to detect. the difference in heads to hearts (middle of run) not able to smell anything but the alcohol. The final 2 to 3 jars (#14,15,16) have a very slightly different smell, but nothing like the wet cardboard or sock smell that some report. Are the different smells very subtle? I was expecting a big slap in the face smell of tails. And I honestly cant tell the difference in heads to hearts. Any suggestions are appreciated. B. I'm confused about SW wash and 4 gals. Are you talking about a spirit run after a stripping run? Your run from 4 gals was 96 oz so I'm assuming it was a stripping run as I usually get 128 oz from each 5 gallon stripping run. If that's the case I agree with trying to find the ""good stuff"". I find that combining 4 or 5 stripping runs to a reflux run gets from 6 to 8 pints of hearts that can be diluted to 40 abv to give a tasteful drink that can be enhanced with flavorings. My spirit runs of 5 gals of stripped usually produce about 13-15 pints of which produces 6 to 8 of what I consider spirit that can be diluted to produce a good 40-50 abv (80-100 proof) product. This works for me."
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Rank: Junior Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/17/2014(UTC) Posts: 74
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cczero, It was a 5 gallon sweet feed wash which I fermented in a 5 gallon bucket. When I siphoned off the wash, I only had about 4 gallons of liquid to run due to the grains in the bottom. I ran a single slow pot still run. I collected in 6 oz jars and ended up with 16 jars. I kept these in a rack in order of collection and covered with paper towels for 48 hours. When I went to sniff the jars to determine heads, hearts and tails, I was unable to determine the cut line. It all smelled about the same. I later learned about diluting a portion of each jar and tasting it for undesirable flavors. The dilution did help the determination of tails, but the heads less so. I ended up with about 1.5 qts. of 110 proof product. B.
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Rank: Senior Member Groups: Registered, Moderator Joined: 4/14/2010(UTC) Posts: 1,666
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" Originally Posted by: Backwash cczero, It was a 5 gallon sweet feed wash which I fermented in a 5 gallon bucket. When I siphoned off the wash, I only had about 4 gallons of liquid to run due to the grains in the bottom. I ran a single slow pot still run. I collected in 6 oz jars and ended up with 16 jars. I kept these in a rack in order of collection and covered with paper towels for 48 hours. When I went to sniff the jars to determine heads, hearts and tails, I was unable to determine the cut line. It all smelled about the same. I later learned about diluting a portion of each jar and tasting it for undesirable flavors. The dilution did help the determination of tails, but the heads less so. I ended up with about 1.5 qts. of 110 proof product. B. You know what....it reads like you did a fine job stillin and collecting it, dont know what still you used but maybe it left most of the yuckies behind and if it all tastes good to you well there ya go!!!!!! I bet after you combine it and give it some time in the jug you will pick out a few strange smells and tastes, not that it's a bad thing but the strangers are the nasties. Now with that said, it dont sound like you got much of the nasties and what might be in there wont kill you or even make you gooey so not to worry, if in the near future you taste something different then just add it back to the next run of wash. As to the quantity captured, that does sound like you made tight cuts and maybe that's why it has very little undesirables in the finished product so ---- Atta boy."
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Rank: Junior Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/17/2014(UTC) Posts: 74
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Heeler, Thanks, I think my cuts were OK based on what I know at this time. The product is aging now with a 5 inch stick of toasted and charred white oak. color is dark amber and I can smell slight vanilla after I give the jar a puff of air. I think I will pull the oak and dilute to 90 p this weekend. Then put away for a while. Have 2nd generation going now and started a 10 gallon cracked corn/ sweet feed and rye batch. It been fermenting for a week at 65 F in the ferm. box. I really appreciate the help you and the others have given me in this hobby. B.
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Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 6/1/2012(UTC) Posts: 157
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" Originally Posted by: Backwash cczero, It was a 5 gallon sweet feed wash which I fermented in a 5 gallon bucket. When I siphoned off the wash, I only had about 4 gallons of liquid to run due to the grains in the bottom. I ran a single slow pot still run. I collected in 6 oz jars and ended up with 16 jars. I kept these in a rack in order of collection and covered with paper towels for 48 hours. When I went to sniff the jars to determine heads, hearts and tails, I was unable to determine the cut line. It all smelled about the same. I later learned about diluting a portion of each jar and tasting it for undesirable flavors. The dilution did help the determination of tails, but the heads less so. I ended up with about 1.5 qts. of 110 proof product. B. It came to me right after I posted what SW was. I do strictly sugar washes and responded accordingly. Sounds like you had a real good run with the quantity and quality you produced. I find doing the ""cuts"" is the hardest part of this hobby but thru doing the many runs I've done I can almost tell by what number in the spirit run the extract is (by inserting and licking my finger). I find hearts, to me, start earlier in the run and last longer than what I've read here. But I'm an old guy and have probably lost as many taste buds as brain cells. Good luck and good going. steve"
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Rank: Junior Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/17/2014(UTC) Posts: 74
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Steve. Thanks for the support. I am sure that even with the cuts I made, some heads and tails are in the product. I tasted every jar after dilution and the early heads had a wicked burn, so I left out first 4 jars. The tails were smooth and I tasted no bitterness, so I only left out the last 3 jars. The middle 9 jars I combined and it proofed out at 110 proof. I split into 2 quart jars and put some oak in each. The color and smell is nice now, so I will strain off the oak, dilute to 90p and put aside to age. B.
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Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 6/1/2012(UTC) Posts: 157
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" Originally Posted by: Backwash Steve. Thanks for the support. I am sure that even with the cuts I made, some heads and tails are in the product. I tasted every jar after dilution and the early heads had a wicked burn, so I left out first 4 jars. The tails were smooth and I tasted no bitterness, so I only left out the last 3 jars. The middle 9 jars I combined and it proofed out at 110 proof. I split into 2 quart jars and put some oak in each. The color and smell is nice now, so I will strain off the oak, dilute to 90p and put aside to age. B. Sounds like you're going to have some nice product. I'd like to know how your aging with oak comes out. I tried aging once with mediocre results. How long will you like it age?"
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Rank: Junior Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/17/2014(UTC) Posts: 74
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Steve, It took on color fast, like 3 days. The wood flavor is still very faint. Im planning on 4 weeks,cut to 90p, then bottle and put away. I think it will be a trial and error thing. I noticed the 2nd batch, which was left to air out too long, was about 88 proof and its is slow to take on any color. I think higher ABV product ages and picks up the wood faster. B.
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Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 8/17/2008(UTC) Posts: 424
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Originally Posted by: cczero I'm confused about SW wash and 4 gals. Are you talking about a spirit run after a stripping run? Your run from 4 gals was 96 oz so I'm assuming it was a stripping run as I usually get 128 oz from each 5 gallon stripping run. If that's the case I agree with trying to find the "good stuff". I find that combining 4 or 5 stripping runs to a reflux run gets from 6 to 8 pints of hearts that can be diluted to 40 abv to give a tasteful drink that can be enhanced with flavorings. My spirit runs of 5 gals of stripped usually produce about 13-15 pints of which produces 6 to 8 of what I consider spirit that can be diluted to produce a good 40-50 abv (80-100 proof) product. This works for me. cczero - if you are only getting a gal of strip out of 5 gal of wash you need to push your strip harder, you are leaving too much behind.
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Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 6/1/2012(UTC) Posts: 157
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Originally Posted by: ratflinger cczero - if you are only getting a gal of strip out of 5 gal of wash you need to push your strip harder, you are leaving too much behind. I actually start with less than 5 gals, closer to 4.5, after racked and pull 5 quarts or to 10 abv. My wash usually is 12 abv when I rack it. I thought I was doing pretty well. What volume do you think I should be pulling? I use 10lbs sugar, 1/4 cup bakers yeast and nutrients in a 5 gal bucket usually (depending on outside temp) run about 20 days to around .990.
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