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Offline jimmy.23  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, December 22, 2009 8:46:23 AM(UTC)
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"Hi all Im New to this. I have recently purchased a PSII HC and read the book but was woundering if there was a guide on what water flow and tempreture per min I should run to the columm to stabbalize it to 173F when just distilling Alcohol in reflux.
Help would be great"
Offline mtnwalker2  
#2 Posted : Tuesday, December 22, 2009 9:31:31 AM(UTC)
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"Hi Jimmy, and welcome.

You asked a question that noone can give an answer to. It is dependent on the amount of heat you are providing, how well insulated your column is, the ABV of your brew or low wines, and the temp. of your cooling water. You just have to adjust it to maintain the take off temp that you need at your altitude.

I have a spring and reservoir, and this time of year, its usually around 34 F. When I first started out in this hobby, before I knew to insulate the column and top half of the boiler, I decided to make a run on a beautiful sunny morning. About the time takeoff started, a massive storm hit. It dropped about 25 F, heavy snow and strong gale force winds. I had to shut the water input down so low, to even get a small trickle, that the whole water supply, hoses and even the cooling tubes froze. Had to shut down, and move it all inside to thaw out. In the summer, I need a fairly heavy flow of water from the same spring though its in the 50's then, in order to get a gallon an hour of 95%. You will also need to add more flow when you get near the tails cut to maintain good reflux and quality, as the vapor becommes hotter. At that point, I also like to increase it enough to attain full reflux for 15 min. to get more good spirit.

Its pretty easy actually, and useing a digital with an alarm really helps a lot.

You will be very happy with your HC unit."
Offline jimmy.23  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, December 22, 2009 8:20:41 PM(UTC)
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Thanks for that I guess I just got to fine tune. When you say insulate the columm is that just for cold weather as I live in Tropical Queensland in Australia where the weather is always hot.
Offline mtnwalker2  
#4 Posted : Friday, December 25, 2009 10:27:24 AM(UTC)
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"Jimmy,

More important the colder the temp. However, still a help in warmer areas as there is still a vast differential from 78+C to your perhaps 37 or so. It will still cause some reflux on the side of the column which will slide back into the pot without revaporizing. Not a requirement though."
Offline billybob  
#5 Posted : Thursday, December 31, 2009 6:04:38 AM(UTC)
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"mntnwalker2, I love it when your lurking in the forum. Your always a step ahead of where I want to be. Your now using the new HC unit?

Couple of questions if you please. I an using he ProII and runs last about 7 1/2 hours and the output is ~90 abv. That's fine. But when you mention getting a gallon an hour from the HC after tweaking things a bit, you got my attention.

Your using the HC with the adapter from the 3 inch neck to the 2 inch neck?

I see most of the time you use flame for heat, while I use the hotplate indoors. The new HC unit requires the 1500W hotplate at a minimum. Will it really cut my runs down to 3-4 hours?
2 hours to boil and 1 hour plus to reflux a gallon?

Anyone else using the HC? Please weigh in.

Man that would be great!

billybob"
Offline billybob  
#6 Posted : Thursday, December 31, 2009 6:31:54 AM(UTC)
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"
Originally Posted by: jimmy.23 Go to Quoted Post
Hi all Im New to this. I have recently purchased a PSII HC and read the book but was woundering if there was a guide on what water flow and tempreture per min I should run to the columm to stabbalize it to 173F when just distilling Alcohol in reflux.
Help would be great



jimmy.23 did you purchase the entire HC unit or the HC column and adapter?


billybob"
Offline mtnwalker2  
#7 Posted : Thursday, December 31, 2009 7:50:38 AM(UTC)
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"Just returning the favor others gave to me when I was just starting. It helped save me a lot of grief and experimentation.

To put things in perspective: I use a keg, and fill it with 12 to 14 gal of low wines at about 45%. With my older heater it would take about 2 hours or a little less to heat up. Then I would reflux for at least 15 min. and then slowly take off the heads, a little less than an hour. Then I can take off at a gallon/ hr. When I start to hit tails, I will again reflux for another 15 min. and get some more hearts. I just run the tails as fast as possible, about the same speed of collection till done. So it is still takeing me around 7 1/2 hours. But, I do end up with a lot of high grade spirit when done.

I use the adopter for the keg. When my new heater gets here, I am going to make a run with the old and new bottom columns under the new top one. An expected heat up time of 15 min. or less, and an even faster spirit run. Maybe 4 hours for 5 to 6 gal. of 95%. I will be useing the old burner, and another keg to do stripping runs with the old top portion, at the same time.

Then I can sit back and enjoy working with my brown spirits and brandies. So many new ones I want to try.

PS. I had a PS II pro, ran it twice, boxed it up and gave it away. Can't really answer you about the electric heat issues.


Originally Posted by: billybob Go to Quoted Post
mntnwalker2, I love it when your lurking in the forum. Your always a step ahead of where I want to be. Your now using the new HC unit?

Couple of questions if you please. I an using he ProII and runs last about 7 1/2 hours and the output is ~90 abv. That's fine. But when you mention getting a gallon an hour from the HC after tweaking things a bit, you got my attention.

Your using the HC with the adapter from the 3 inch neck to the 2 inch neck?

I see most of the time you use flame for heat, while I use the hotplate indoors. The new HC unit requires the 1500W hotplate at a minimum. Will it really cut my runs down to 3-4 hours?
2 hours to boil and 1 hour plus to reflux a gallon?

Anyone else using the HC? Please weigh in.

Man that would be great!

billybob
"
Offline ratflinger  
#8 Posted : Friday, January 01, 2010 11:10:28 AM(UTC)
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"
Originally Posted by: billybob Go to Quoted Post
mntnwalker2, I love it when your lurking in the forum. Your always a step ahead of where I want to be. Your now using the new HC unit?

Couple of questions if you please. I an using he ProII and runs last about 7 1/2 hours and the output is ~90 abv. That's fine. But when you mention getting a gallon an hour from the HC after tweaking things a bit, you got my attention.

Your using the HC with the adapter from the 3 inch neck to the 2 inch neck?

I see most of the time you use flame for heat, while I use the hotplate indoors. The new HC unit requires the 1500W hotplate at a minimum. Will it really cut my runs down to 3-4 hours?
2 hours to boil and 1 hour plus to reflux a gallon?

Anyone else using the HC? Please weigh in.

Man that would be great!

billybob



That would be an extremely short run. My HC starts producing after about 1.5 hours, then I hit the water hard & reflux for 45 min & then start pulling. I fiddle with it for another 3 hours before shutdown, so I'm running 5 - 5.5 hrs. That's with the 1500 hot plate modded to not cycle"
Offline ratflinger  
#9 Posted : Friday, January 01, 2010 11:15:50 AM(UTC)
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"
Originally Posted by: jimmy.23 Go to Quoted Post
Thanks for that I guess I just got to fine tune. When you say insulate the columm is that just for cold weather as I live in Tropical Queensland in Australia where the weather is always hot.


Gooday mate! Been to Queensland a few times, always enjoyed it - Brizzy area. I live in South Texas where the climate is similar to Brisbane, maybe a little hotter & my unit is fully insulated. I'm using the hotplate, so my boiler has full coverage vs. the 1/2 coverage for a propane unit. Wind will cool the unit more than you realize, so I'd insulate appropriate to your heat source."
Offline ratflinger  
#10 Posted : Friday, January 01, 2010 11:18:59 AM(UTC)
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"
Originally Posted by: jimmy.23 Go to Quoted Post
Hi all Im New to this. I have recently purchased a PSII HC and read the book but was woundering if there was a guide on what water flow and tempreture per min I should run to the columm to stabbalize it to 173F when just distilling Alcohol in reflux.
Help would be great


Fire it at full until it just starts to drip, then hit the water enough to drop the temp 4 or so degrees (F), stops the flow & starts full reflux. A drip every now & then - a little more water."
Offline mtnwalker2  
#11 Posted : Friday, January 01, 2010 12:24:36 PM(UTC)
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"perfect advice. If only a drip every now and then, don't sweat it, its foreshots, just low and refined. This big bugger of a column will do most of the work for you. Just have to follow the very basics.

Get a good chair, a good book, sit back and enjoy, but be where you can watch."
Offline jimmy.23  
#12 Posted : Friday, January 01, 2010 7:58:30 PM(UTC)
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"Thanks guys sorry late reply, Yeah Im up North Queensland so simalar to Texas, Yeah own the HC full unit.

Originally Posted by: ratflinger Go to Quoted Post
Fire it at full until it just starts to drip, then hit the water enough to drop the temp 4 or so degrees (F), stops the flow & starts full reflux. A drip every now & then - a little more water.


Whe you say above, how to know when to add more water or is jst a matter of maintaining temperture and monitoring for the tails?"
Offline jimmy.23  
#13 Posted : Friday, January 01, 2010 10:53:09 PM(UTC)
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"Also many talk of insulating the column. I believe I will do this.
What is the right material and thickness for the job and best way to attach.
Some pictures would be great...

Cheers for you help...Jimmy"
Offline ratflinger  
#14 Posted : Saturday, January 02, 2010 11:17:57 AM(UTC)
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"
Originally Posted by: jimmy.23 Go to Quoted Post
Also many talk of insulating the column. I believe I will do this.
What is the right material and thickness for the job and best way to attach.
Some pictures would be great...

Cheers for you help...Jimmy


Mine's all broken down right now or I'd post a pic. I used what's known as Reflectix. Basically it's the bubble wrap that is aluminized and sold as an insulation product. I used metal foil HVAC tape to seal it.

http://www.reflectixinc.com/

I just cut to fit & taped it closed. Where you live it should be plenty. I'm sure there is a comparable Aussie product."
Offline ratflinger  
#15 Posted : Saturday, January 02, 2010 11:31:09 AM(UTC)
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"
Originally Posted by: jimmy.23 Go to Quoted Post
Thanks guys sorry late reply, Yeah Im up North Queensland so simalar to Texas, Yeah own the HC full unit.



Whe you say above, how to know when to add more water or is jst a matter of maintaining temperture and monitoring for the tails?



Here's what I do. Fired the unit & start cooking. Then I charge all the lines (condenser & reflux) with water. At about 50*c I turn the condenser on full flow. At the first drips I start the reflux water just enough to lower the temp about 4*f, this is generally enough to stop any drippage. I keep the heat on high. I let it reflux for 45 min to 1 hour, if I start getting drips I add a little more water, but like mtnwlkr2 says - it's just the trash anyway. After the reflux period I lower the water flow until the temp comes up to 78*c. I can keep it there purely on water flow, I keep the hot plate on full blast. I use a 40 gal horse tank & in the summer I will need to dump some hot water & add back new cool water, but in the winter the 40 gal is plenty. I do use 2 pumps so I'm not fiddling with keeping water to the condenser while balancing some water to the reflux unit. The condenser pumps at full & the reflux water is controlled at the output, I keep the lines fully charged, with a trickle coming out. I find this is the easiest way for me to control the temp, but other ways should be fine also."
Offline jimmy.23  
#16 Posted : Saturday, January 02, 2010 11:51:41 AM(UTC)
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"
Originally Posted by: ratflinger Go to Quoted Post
Here's what I do. Fired the unit & start cooking. Then I charge all the lines (condenser & reflux) with water. At about 50*c I turn the condenser on full flow. At the first drips I start the reflux water just enough to lower the temp about 4*f, this is generally enough to stop any drippage. I keep the heat on high. I let it reflux for 45 min to 1 hour, if I start getting drips I add a little more water, but like mtnwlkr2 says - it's just the trash anyway. After the reflux period I lower the water flow until the temp comes up to 78*c. I can keep it there purely on water flow, I keep the hot plate on full blast. I use a 40 gal horse tank & in the summer I will need to dump some hot water & add back new cool water, but in the winter the 40 gal is plenty. I do use 2 pumps so I'm not fiddling with keeping water to the condenser while balancing some water to the reflux unit. The condenser pumps at full & the reflux water is controlled at the output, I keep the lines fully charged, with a trickle coming out. I find this is the easiest way for me to control the temp, but other ways should be fine also.


Thanks to you,mtnwlkr2 and others all terminology is starting to be come much clearer with readind lots of posts.
After full reflux. when you start to lower the temp.this is when you catch the Foreshores and heads until reaching a certain temp. Is there anyway of telling difference between Foreshores and Heads or when to Cut."
Offline jimmy.23  
#17 Posted : Saturday, January 02, 2010 11:53:25 AM(UTC)
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And Thankyou for that Link I will have a look
Offline ratflinger  
#18 Posted : Sunday, January 03, 2010 4:53:32 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: jimmy.23 Go to Quoted Post
Thanks to you,mtnwlkr2 and others all terminology is starting to be come much clearer with readind lots of posts.
After full reflux. when you start to lower the temp.this is when you catch the Foreshores and heads until reaching a certain temp. Is there anyway of telling difference between Foreshores and Heads or when to Cut.



After full reflux you raise the temp to get flow. The first 50 - 100ml will be foreshots - you can tell, smells like hell. This stuff will come off before you reach 78*c. The best way to compare heads, hearts, & tails is collect in small amounts, say 3/4 liters & label them. This way you start getting an idea of what you are getting & at what stage you are getting it. How much of the heads & tails you use for your final product is subjective - you are the one drinking it. Any heads or tails not used should be stored for your next run as there is still plenty of good alcohol trapped in with the lesser stuff. It won't take long for you to develop your taste & smell profiles so that you know when to start & stop collecting. Collect as far into the tails as you wish, it will be recycled anyway.
Offline jimmy.23  
#19 Posted : Sunday, January 03, 2010 8:12:02 AM(UTC)
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Thanks Mate,say on a Rum wash do those heads have important flavours or am I able to spare to loose some
Offline ratflinger  
#20 Posted : Sunday, January 03, 2010 4:56:33 PM(UTC)
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If you are refluxing then you lose all flavors, except far a sweet aftertaste due to the binding of the sugar to alcohol molecule. If you want taste then you need to pot distill. I don't, so I may be wrong about the percentage, but I believe any abv above 70% will be relatively flavorless. It may be less. Whiskey goes into the barrel about 54%. Just remember, a lot of flavor is actually from the long barrel times these liquors get.
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