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Offline docmj  
#1 Posted : Friday, May 01, 2009 1:17:44 AM(UTC)
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"Have seen a lot of posts where the neutral spirits are tasteless.

Mine either taste like yeast,rubing alcohol or fusil oils , or all of the above.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

MJ:)"
Offline ratflinger  
#2 Posted : Friday, May 08, 2009 1:45:36 AM(UTC)
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I assume you are refluxing since you mention neutral spirits. The off tastes you describe often come from not tossing the 1st 100ml and/or driving into the tails. Please describe your method of distillation.
Offline docmj  
#3 Posted : Friday, May 08, 2009 1:58:16 AM(UTC)
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"Thanks for answering..not sure any one would after seeing my spelling !
Yes I am refluxing, useing a sugar wash untill I get better at this.
Pouring off the first 50 ml but will increase to 100 ml.
Have been seperating at approximately a pint at a time but cannot tell any difference from start to finish.
Will switch to a digital thermometer for the next batch.

Thanks again"
Offline mtnwalker2  
#4 Posted : Friday, May 08, 2009 2:55:08 AM(UTC)
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"Ratflinger is exactly right on his recommendation of controlling the heat and how to do it. To much heat= to fast a run= very poor reflux= mixture of heads, tails and hearts all through the run. I would also be surprised if you weren't getting some uncondensed vapor from your condensor?

As a further suggestion for really good neutral, make sure it clears good before running. Then do a stripping run on several batches. Cut that back to 40% and then do the spirit run in full reflux.

The digital thermometer will help you. You may want to calibrate it with boiling water and or freezing water first.

Also, add some bakeing soda to the low wines after the stripping run. I use a tbs. per gal."
Offline ratflinger  
#5 Posted : Saturday, May 09, 2009 2:43:10 AM(UTC)
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"I did forget to ask that question mntwalker2

OP are you stripping 1st or just trying to reflux right from the fermenter?

That would explain your yeast taste & poor overall quality. I generally strip 2 batches of wash in pot mode (no packing), fast & hard, collecting basically everything (except the first 50 - 100 ml). Temp does not matter on the pot run, faster the better. You come up with about 40% depending on when you stop stripping. Combine at least 2 of these runs for a reflux run. When the temp starts coming up throw full water (reflux) to it to keep the head temp down around 70*. Reflux for 30 - 60 min, then slowly lower the reflux water flow until the temp comes up to 78* Fore shot start coming off around 74*, collect these until you get to 78* & then collect until 50-100ml collected. Toss these & start collecting. As long as you keep the heat steady you can control the temp via the reflux water. Now you'll be getting 90%+ ABV. Collect as far into the tails as you wish (tails = flavors), I usually stop around 80%, as all of my take off will be flavored with fruits later on. Let the batch rest with a cloth cover for a day or 2 to air & then cut with good water down to 40% - 45%.

I have insulated my EE2 Pro with Reflectix (silver bubble wrap from Lowes or HD) to increase temp stability, as the wind will cause you problems. Also note that condenser water must be full flow & never any more that slightly warm. I use a 40 gal horse tank for my water"
Offline ratflinger  
#6 Posted : Saturday, May 09, 2009 2:46:40 AM(UTC)
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"mntwalker2 mentions baking soda & this will help your reflux runs, just never add the BS to the wash, only to the strip.

BTW - a sweet aftertaste is normal for a sugar wash. Some glucose binds to the alcohol molecule."
Offline Wade  
#7 Posted : Saturday, May 09, 2009 8:50:14 AM(UTC)
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Good info you two!
Offline docmj  
#8 Posted : Sunday, May 10, 2009 4:01:50 AM(UTC)
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"Many thanks to ratflinger,mtnwalker2 and wade.
What you guys explaned is not what I have been doing so it has to get better!
Although I have been disposing of my mistakes in a great way !

Thanks again
docmj"
Offline NewYawk  
#9 Posted : Saturday, January 09, 2010 6:24:50 AM(UTC)
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I had a question about the baking soda / salt additives. Cant this react with copper or stainless and cause "blue spirits" or some kind of ammonia reaction? Does the still need to be clear of copper before adding anything like this?
Offline mtnwalker2  
#10 Posted : Saturday, January 09, 2010 9:39:12 AM(UTC)
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"
Originally Posted by: NewYawk Go to Quoted Post
I had a question about the baking soda / salt additives. Cant this react with copper or stainless and cause ""blue spirits"" or some kind of ammonia reaction? Does the still need to be clear of copper before adding anything like this?



Never add it to your first run. Yes, ammonia and blue spirits will result.

Adding to the cleaned low wines, stripped spirits you will have no problems. No issues with copper."
Offline LWTCS  
#11 Posted : Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:17:03 PM(UTC)
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"Collect in small (300 ml) quantities or less.
Let them spirits (in jars) air out over night.

Start evaluating from your center collection vessel and work your way out in either direction.

Smell and taste for your most nuetural smelling (and tasting) collection jars.
Save the remainder to rerun with your next batch or the like.

Age in (perhaps) glass for at least three weeks. Leave some head space.

Shortly there after, enjoy your good likker.

And most importantly, don't be greedy.

Just a suggestion."
Offline luis  
#12 Posted : Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:51:17 PM(UTC)
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"I'm just trying to understand something. Leave the distillate in an open jar overnight? Water evaporates, but wouldn't alcohol evaporate even faster?

Also, does everything require aging with oak chips, or is aging in a glass jar alone okay? I'm using toasted oak to make single-malt whiskey and Kentucky bourbon, but if I were making brandy, would I still need to use oak?"
Offline LWTCS  
#13 Posted : Saturday, January 09, 2010 4:08:54 PM(UTC)
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"Some alcohol may evaporate it's true. But some of the more volitile compounds will also evaporate (thats good). Stop thinking greedy. Abv is not the be all to end all measure of quality.

Likker fresh out of the business end will be rather hot on the tongue. Some sharpness in odor may also be present.

Airing out will soften the sharpness and allow for a better evaluation of what to keep as hearts.

Aging in glass with head room is a good way to polish your spirits.

Aging with oak is also a great way to incorporate some complexity into your likker.

I believe some gents like to keep their brandy clear. I like em all."
Offline ratflinger  
#14 Posted : Monday, January 11, 2010 11:36:35 AM(UTC)
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a little glycerin will smooth the tongue feel also.
Offline Fusefinder  
#15 Posted : Thursday, June 14, 2012 6:26:36 AM(UTC)
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"
Originally Posted by: NewYawk Go to Quoted Post
I had a question about the baking soda / salt additives. Cant this react with copper or stainless and cause ""blue spirits"" or some kind of ammonia reaction? Does the still need to be clear of copper before adding anything like this?


Originally Posted by: mtnwalker2 Go to Quoted Post
Never add it to your first run. Yes, ammonia and blue spirits will result.

Adding to the cleaned low wines, stripped spirits you will have no problems. No issues with copper.


Does this apply to SALT or only SODA during stripping runs?...I've seen it (salt) recomended here or there.
I'm guessing Salt is OK Soda only in spirit run...Please chime in!"
Offline ratflinger  
#16 Posted : Friday, June 15, 2012 4:28:09 PM(UTC)
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No point in adding anything to the strips - hard & fast is all you care about. On a sugar wash reflux run I add 1 1/4 c soda ash & 3/4 c kosher salt. Hearts come out fantastic. There is a big delineation between heads/hearts & hearts/tails. Heads go into a carboy for next time as well as final tails. Hearts are separated & I actually continue to pull tails for drinking. These I put on charcoal for a month or so. Hearts get aerated, cut, & drank.
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