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#1 Posted : Sunday, February 18, 2007 7:46:10 AM(UTC)
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I had to join again - it's been so long since I posted and the board wouldn't let me back on.

Just a couple of musings - first, Elrico commented that brown sugar is made from ,cane, sugar and molasses. This is not true in general. Brown sugar is just regular, granulated cane sugar that has been heated to partially caramelize it. Look at most brown sugar packages in your favorite grocery store. The list of ingredients will be just 'pure cane sugar'. No molasses. It may be possible to find some brown sugar with molasses in it but the bulk of brown sugar marketed is nothing but partially caramelized ,heated, cane sugar and nothing more. You can make your own brown sugar by heating cane sugar in a dry pan, stirring constantly while heating.

Next, if you've done much fermenting of cane sugar, you know that the rate of CO2 production coming off your fermenter is influenced by the temperature. It would make a nice organic chemistry or physical chemistry lab exercise to measure the rate of CO2 production at a given temperature, change the temp, do it again and make an Arrhenius plot to get an 'effective' activation barrier for the process. One could change the amount of yeast added and look at the ,pseudo, reaction rate order relative to the amount of yeast added.

Supposedly the yeast multiplies until most of the oxygen in the fermenter solution/slurry is gone, then the yeast begins producing alcoholin its anerobic mode ,I haven't verified this independently, but I read that somewhere,. More yeast may very well decrease the 'reaction time' and save some days fermenting. Has anyone here done that experiment?

Harrell
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#2 Posted : Sunday, February 18, 2007 3:19:08 PM(UTC)
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Harrell:

Thank you for your input but I do believe brown sugar is indeed make of cane sugar and molasses.

'Brown sugar
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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This page is about the sugar product. For the slang term for the opioid, see heroin. For other uses see brown sugar ,disambiguation,.

Brown sugar typical of that bought in Western supermarketsBrown sugar is a sucrose sugar product with a distinctive brown color due to the presence of molasses. It is either an unrefined or partially refined soft sugar consisting of sugar crystals with some residual molasses content or produced by the addition of molasses to refined white sugar.

Brown sugar contains from 3.5% molasses ,light brown sugar, to 6.5% molasses ,dark brown sugar,. The product is naturally moist from the hygroscopic nature of the molasses and is often labelled as 'soft.' The product may undergo processing to give a product that flows better for industrial handling. The addition of dyes and/or other chemicals may be permitted in some areas or for industrial products.

Particle size is variable but generally less than granulated white sugar, products for industrial use e.g. as an ingredient for industrial production of cakes may be based on caster sugar ,crystals of approximately 0.35 mm,.

Manufacture
Many brown sugar producers produce brown sugar by adding cane molasses to completely refined white sugar crystals in order to more carefully control the ratio of molasses to sugar crystals and to reduce manufacturing costs. This also allows the production of brown sugars in areas where the source of sugar is predominantly from beet. Brown sugar prepared in this manner is often much coarser than its unrefined equivalent and its molasses may be easily separated from the crystals by simple washing to reveal the underlying white sugar crystals; with unrefined brown there is inclusion of molasses within the crystal which will appear off-white if washed. This is mainly done for inventory control and convenience.

The molasses used is often that obtained from sugar cane, because the flavor is preferable over that of beet sugar molasses, though some areas, e.g. the Netherlands, sugar beet molasses is often used. Beet molasses generally carries a strong vegetable odour and taste from its beet origins; brown sugar produced from this will have a slightly different taste and smell to that produced with cane molasses. The white sugar used can be from either beet or cane as odour and colour differences will be covered by the molasses.

Brown sugar can be made at home by mixing white granulated sugar with molasses, using one tablespoon of molasses for every cup of white sugar ,one-sixteenth or 6.25% of the total volume,. Thorough blending will yield dark brown sugar; for light brown sugar, between one and two teaspoons of molasses per cup should be used instead. It is, however, simpler to substitute molasses for an equal portion of white sugar while cooking, without mixing them separately.'

I can tell you from personal experience that it makes a pretty good rum as well.

Cheers!
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#3 Posted : Monday, February 19, 2007 12:45:17 AM(UTC)
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mr. E, who's diego's next head coach ???? thanks, scott from tx
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#4 Posted : Monday, February 19, 2007 2:09:44 AM(UTC)
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There does seem to be disagreement regarding the brown sugar. The 'light brown sugar' I'm holding in my hand now has no molasses. It is the store brand from HyVee ,chain of grocery stores in the upper midwest,. Ingredients are 'pure cane sugar'. No molasses.

But this depends on what you believe molasses is. In my part of the world, molasses is made from sorghum or sugar beet. There is a kind of 'molasses' that is made by caramelizing cane sugar. If you consider that to be molasses, then we're saying the same thing.

The brown sugar I have and that I have made is nothing but cane sugar.
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#5 Posted : Monday, February 19, 2007 2:17:00 AM(UTC)
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Molasses is a part of the raw material ,granulated white sugar is refined, where the molasses is removed from the raw sugar cane or beet,. Therefore, it is not actually an ingredient, and would not have to be claimed as an ingredient as it is simply part of the 'pure cane sugar'.
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#6 Posted : Monday, February 19, 2007 3:33:58 AM(UTC)
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Actually I think we are all right on this one. I went to C&H Sugar's web site. C&H Sugar is one of the largest sugar producers in the world. This is what they have to say about it.

'Brown cane sugar is a natural combination of sugar and molasses, refined without any added colorings, flavorings or coatings. Formed using the traditional method of crystallization, each C&H brown sugar crystal is brown all the way through. If cane sugar is not specified on the label, the sugar may be beet sugar. What beet sugar makers call 'brown sugar' starts out as white sugar crystals that are then sprayed with a brown coating. Often the center of the crystal remains white and the brown molasses coating can be rubbed off in your hands. Not exactly what you want when you go to the effort of baking something fresh from scratch!'

Or making rum from sctatch!

I'm glad you brought this up Harrell as it made me look into it more. The rum I make is made with C&H Sugar and comes out excellent. However I have had others say theirs were good but not great. I had originally put this down to different strokes. However now I realize they may have been using beet sugar that had been coated. I believe that may be the difference. So from now on I will make sure when I share my recipe to stipulate to use only dark brown pure cane sugar. Thanks.

Cheers!
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#7 Posted : Monday, February 19, 2007 9:03:44 AM(UTC)
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Scott:

Looks like Norv Turner is going to get a third shot at the helm. He did so well in DC and Oakland! You will remember him from the Aikman days in Dallas. If he does as well with Rivers we may have something there. I just wish he was coming in as offensive coordinator ,again, instead of head coach.

Cheers.
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#8 Posted : Tuesday, February 20, 2007 7:13:17 AM(UTC)
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A few months ago I bought a 5 gallon jug of molasses ,sorghum, from the feed store. I put 16 poounds of it in my fermenter, diluted to 25 liters and added the turbo yeast.

The double-distilled product was so nasty that I couldn't drink it. It had a particular asphault flavor.
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#9 Posted : Tuesday, February 20, 2007 7:15:36 AM(UTC)
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P.S. Rick, I believe the claim of 'pure cane sugar' on the package excludes the 'raw' material.
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#10 Posted : Tuesday, February 20, 2007 3:01:00 PM(UTC)
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I do not doubt this at all. Not all molasses is good for fermentation. You would also want to stay with food grade molasses, as some of the molasses intended for feed have other ingredients added, which could turn out a very poor fermented or distilled product.

An ingredient list is to name the ingredients with the commonly used terms. Saying pure cane sugar means only that the sugar was derived solely from sugar cane. You would most likely find anything from white through to dark brown sugar all listing 'pure cane sugar' as the sole ingredient. And, this is entirely correct. However, the level of refinement, or amount of molasses removed, will dictate the color and actual contents of the sugar. But, just the same, molasses is simply part of the sugar syrup that comes from sugar cane or sugar beets.
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#11 Posted : Tuesday, February 20, 2007 3:05:01 PM(UTC)
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I've been watching this thread about the white sugar/brown sugar topic fairly closely. Am i correct in concluding that to get brown sugar, and be in control of its 'quality' or 'brown'-ness, i could simply cook granulated cane sugar in a pan until it begins to carmelize?
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#12 Posted : Tuesday, February 20, 2007 3:26:02 PM(UTC)
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Harrell:

First make sure the sorghum you have is made from sweet sorghum and not grain sorghum. That is different than cane sugar. Now if you are goihng to use sorghum here's a site you might find helpful:

http://www.fao.org/docrep/T4470E/t4470e07.htm

Robert:

No. If you are going to make rum don't try to carmelize your sugar. Brown sugar is not simply white sugar caramelized. Go out and buy dark brown pure cane sugar, and add a bottle of cane molasses ,non sulfered,. I stand by that. I makes great rum.

Cheers!
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#13 Posted : Tuesday, February 20, 2007 3:35:00 PM(UTC)
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No. What is generally food molasses ,as opposed to feed grade molasses, is part of the juice squeezed / pressed from sugar cane. In ,very, short, boiling of this juice removes water and causes the sugar to crystallize, which is then removed. Carmelizing of sugar will not replicate brown sugar, where molasses is present.
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#14 Posted : Tuesday, February 20, 2007 3:51:00 PM(UTC)
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guess that answers that!!! lol, thought maybe i had found a 'shortcut', but even so, i can handle doing it the 'long way'... thanks elricko and rick!

elricko: i know what you mean about spending time reading that site. i have spent many many many hours pouring over it.

later all, Rob
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#15 Posted : Tuesday, February 20, 2007 4:19:56 PM(UTC)
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I disagree with Rick. I have made brown sugar myself by ,partially, caramelizing ordinary ,white, pure cane sugar by heating it and nothing but that ... heating it.... and stirring. There's nothing more in it than that. And if you call that molasses, then so be it. but it is just 'pure cane sugar' as the label says.

When the package says the ingredients are 'pure cane sugar' then that is all the raw material there is in it. no squeezings from the cane stalks or otherwise. It's nothing but 'pure cane sugar' heated or not. and that's that.
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#16 Posted : Wednesday, February 21, 2007 2:02:51 AM(UTC)
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Well I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. Everything I've read from the encyclopedia to the sugar manufacturers themselves state that brown sugar is sugar combined with molasses, not caramelized white sugar. And that is indeed that.

I guess my question would be, with dark brown sugar available in every store in the country, and with it being a cheap as it is, why go to the trouble of trying to make it anyway? My advice remains the same. Go out and buy dark brown pure cane sugar. Period. 16 lbs for a 25L batch, plus the added molasses for extra flavor.
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#17 Posted : Wednesday, February 21, 2007 2:13:00 AM(UTC)
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to try and save myself some time gawking around at the grocery store, do most of them carry molasses? if not, where is a good place to look for it?



Rob
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#18 Posted : Wednesday, February 21, 2007 2:15:00 AM(UTC)
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While I certainly agree with regard to the lack of drive to make your own brown sugar, there certainly can be merit in using a blend of molasses and sucrose ,white sugar, for control of how much molasses goes into the batch. I would not consider this making your own brown sugar, as it would simply be using two ingredients ,which you are with the brown sugar and molasses, anyway, simply with greater control over the levels of each. It just allows for more tinkering and fine tuning to ones own tastes- nothing more.
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#19 Posted : Wednesday, February 21, 2007 2:47:47 AM(UTC)
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Rick seems to have the most definative and economical answer. Brown sugar will not have a tremendous amount of molasses anyway, and if its just coated white? Here, dark brown sugar is $1 a pound, food grade mollasses is <$3 and cane sugar is cheap. Just add more or less molasses to your individual taste? Makes sense and saves money.

BTW Do you all use backset for your rums? What percentage/ volume?
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#20 Posted : Wednesday, February 21, 2007 3:37:44 AM(UTC)
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I have made Rum using Rick's recipe Dark Brown Sugar, Molasses,yeast...It turned out very good everyone wants the rum and not the vodka or plain sugar wash. the brown sugar runs about twice as much as white here. So it costs $8-10 more batch which I get about 2 gallons finished so about $1.00 more quart. I know it works, tastes good...
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