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Offline AzJim  
#1 Posted : Friday, July 02, 2010 2:38:13 AM(UTC)
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"Greeting,
I'm getting ready for my very 1st run, 9 gal (30 Ltr) Goose neck pot still, Bayou Burner, Flaked Maize and Malt run for Moonshine. Will probably do a small run (4-5 gals) at first. Question: Is there a formula or a guesstimate for determining the final quantity of drinkable spirits upon completion of the run?
Also, any other words of advice or tips are greatly appreciated.
Thank You,
AzJim"
Offline div4gold  
#2 Posted : Saturday, July 03, 2010 5:02:42 PM(UTC)
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I usually get 1 gallon + a 175ml bottle when it's cut to 90 proof . Thats from a 5 gallon run. Sometimes the 175 ml bottle is a little short of full.
Offline heeler  
#3 Posted : Sunday, July 04, 2010 1:55:52 AM(UTC)
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"That is a good recipe.......really the amount is well??..If you toss your first 100-200mls and really stick to your cuts, the amount is questionable. Now with that said, toss out 200mls and then only keep for ageing from 90% down to 60% and thats the best of the hearts MOSTLY. I dont throw away 92% but the whiskey making folks say true whiskey is from 80% to 60%. Everything is for the next run. Higher proofs just dont have the flavor that you are after, so keep the high proof in a seperate container and combine the 80-60% cuts. With my still I found around 55% I start the fusels run. So I stop putting the distillate in the keeper jug way before that. I have a glass thumper and I can actually see them show up before they get past it. My thump juice gets cloudy.
My last run I kept 1 and most of another qt. uncut for the hearts run and the rest was for the next run. When it was cut and ready for ageing it was 2 full qts at 60%. (just my thoughts and opinions) Will cut to 45-50% for swillin.."
Offline div4gold  
#4 Posted : Sunday, July 04, 2010 8:17:52 AM(UTC)
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I toss 2 oz's and the rest of the run cut to 90 proof/45% equals the above. That includes everything in the run without cuts.
Offline LWTCS  
#5 Posted : Sunday, July 04, 2010 10:04:54 AM(UTC)
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"There is math but gonna be tuff to land those numbers till you learn how to run that still.

Are you planning on a single or double run?

I git about 2.75 liters of high alcohol per 20 liters after cuts with no diluting.

Some like to keep their likker proofy, some like it cut to 35%, some like no hint of heads or tails.

Give more info get more info."
Offline AzJim  
#6 Posted : Monday, July 05, 2010 3:00:55 AM(UTC)
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"Gentlemen,
Thanks for all of the input. Right now I'm waiting for a stainless 10gal stock pot to arrive and then I can start the mash. Been devouring several books;Rowley's Moonshine, The Compleat Distiller and Smiley's Pure Corn Whiskey. Don't have a Chemistry background so gleaning what I can from each text. Rowley's book makes is ""appear"" very simple, but I don't think so. I keep telling myself if a Shiner in the deep South with 2 teeth and a 3rd grade education can make good shine (no offense intended) that perhaps I have a fighting chance. My goal is to make small quantities of smooth, tasty moonshine and I would like to do double runs once I become comfortable with the basic operations. I recently was given a 100 yr. old dbl.hole ""outhouse"" that is going to be my ""Still House"" ( storage only) and my wife graciously spent 6 hrs cleaning the interior. I'm currently, while waiting for he stockpot, re-cladding the exterior with new/old barn siding. I must have too much time on my hands. I am a glassblower by trade and am also making miscellaneous Shine jugs. Having allot of fun. Please keep the questions (to me) coming as I thoroughly appreciate the dialog and wisdom that you are willing to share.
Regards,
AzJim"
Offline LWTCS  
#7 Posted : Monday, July 05, 2010 4:29:06 AM(UTC)
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"Hi Jim.

Glass blower eh? Thats cool. What do you typically manufacture?

Also, good woman there. Congratulations to you on finding a keeper.

Got any pics of your rig?

Strip run= the act of shedding bulk amounts of water from the wash.

Do not be concerned with temperatures as the wash in your boiler will dictate the temps.
Collect down to 15 or 20%

A strip run first, can make evaluating your cuts on your spirit run much easier.

A strip run is not nessesary. But a single run will be much more time consuming as you will need to run very slowly (after you get your boiler to temp). Running more slowly will give you higher abv and the single run can often render the flavored spirit that whiskey,rum and brandy enthusiasts try to acheive.

I typically do not have the time for a ""proper single run"". Also I do prefer my likker a bit more proofy. Therefore, the double run or twice run would have been my prefered method. That is prior to my latest rig."
Offline LWTCS  
#8 Posted : Monday, July 05, 2010 5:17:16 AM(UTC)
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"Bring your boiler to temp as quickly as you have fuel and time for.

Some old school shiners might say that comin to temp slowly gives a better result. I do not make enough time to come to temp slowly and I am happy to report that I like my results. But you will need to conclude whats best for you (always remember that).

For the strip run (make sure your wash is well cleared IMO) just run as fast as your product condenser can knock down the vapor. Collect everything (down to 15 or 20%) in a single vessel. Some like to discard ""fores"" on the strip run. I toss the fores on the spirit run.

For the spirit run, bring your rig to temp at your (fast or slow) pace.
Feel the top of your boiler and the base of your still head as the unit comes to temp. Listen to the boil. Make a mental note of any changes that occur. When the wash starts to boil turn your input down to medium/medium low.

You will feel the heat climbing up your column lenth. Fores (poison) will likely discharge before the heat gets to the product condenser. Likely be about 50 ml of fores with your still. Do not drink this.

Next bit will be heads. This is where all the ugly hang over shit lives. Some gents use bits of heads to flavor there likker. Me,,,,I stir clear of all heads.

During your spirit run, try and adjust your input so that your discharge is the size of a pencil lead. Or perhaps a tooth pic. Drip sized discharge will get you a higher abv but man oh man thats too slow for me.

Try and collect your distillate in 250 ml or 300 ml sized quantities. You will need 10 or 15 jars to do this. Mason jars are cheap and fit the bill nicely. By collecting in small increments, you will be able to more precisely keep heads, hearts, and tails separate.

Heads will smell sweet and kind of fruity. Do not be fooled. That is one ugly ass hangover waiting to happen. Heads are very sharp on the nose with lots of alcohol burn. Don't burn your nose as you will need it to help evaluate your likker. Each recipe can produce a different amount of heads so collecting in small jars can really help. IMO women have an excellant nose. Your missus should be a very good evaluator.

Hearts will smell much more smooth and not have that nasty astringent smell. This is the cream of your run. Most reflux gents only want hearts as hearts are clearly the most nuetural.

We potstillers like a lil dirt in our likker. No dirt (congeners) no flavor.

Tails smell of wet card board or old shoe or wet dog,,,,,,or dirty ass (so I am toldOhMyGod). This is the back side of the run. Early tails can be quite nice. The reflux gents rarely get pleasant tails as their rigs do a very efficiant job of compressing the etho into the hearts. Tails through the reflux column is rank. But the whisky and rum Gents use bits of heads and some tails added back to their hearts for character. Gotta find your own preferences with this as it's all subjective. Just trust your taste buds.

If you cover your jars with a coffe filter and let them air out over night, it will be easier to evaluate your likker the next day. Much of the sharpness will have evaporated.

Once you get a feel for your recipe and your still, you will prolly not need to collect in small jars. You will likely learn that your recipe gives you X amount of heads and XX amount of hearts and the remainder tails.

Keep your heads and tails (not fores) and rerun with your next batch.

I prolly missed a bunch that others can articulate so much better."
Offline AzJim  
#9 Posted : Monday, July 05, 2010 12:55:38 PM(UTC)
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"div4gold, heeler, LWTCS, etc.
Thank you for the information thus far. Perhaps I have been reading too much and am getting a bit confused. As an analogy, I teach private and college glassblowing classes; Initially I inform the students to do this, then this, then this, etc to achieve X result. A beginner will take 30 minutes to make a common tumbler, blowing ""segmentally"". Once their skills improve, the segments disappear and they can blow the same tumbler in 5-7 minutes. Consequently, I am thinking ""segmentally"" for the distilling process, which is perhaps unnecessary. Over the next few days, with your indulgence, I will outline what I perceive the actual ""steps"" to be, and will describe (or photos) the current still and accessories that I have accumulated for this endeavor. I don't expect you to ""babysit"" me through this, but sincerely appreciate and value your knowledge and skills.
In the meantime, I'm almost finished re-cladding my stillhouse, and the stock pot will arrive on the 7th. Can't wait to get started.
Regards,
AzJim
LWTCS, I blow some pretty crazy stuff. image attached."
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Offline LWTCS  
#10 Posted : Monday, July 05, 2010 1:44:55 PM(UTC)
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"No prollem Jim.

Talkin to stillers all day,,, some times I forget that the lingo that makes things easy for experienced stillers, can confuse folks new to the craft.

Just ask your questions when you need to, and we'll try to set you straight and let you run till the next bump.

BTW, very beautiful art you make there. Is your entire body of work ""art"" or do you also blow more industrial peices to pay for the ""extras""?

Hope thats not out of line.

No matter, that is very cool."
Offline heeler  
#11 Posted : Tuesday, July 06, 2010 1:22:29 AM(UTC)
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AzJim, If you are gonna make some really cool shine jugs maybe you would be interested in selling a few? Now most of us who do this hobby have the standard hooch jug (you know the one with the finger thingy) but I dont think I want to store my hard work in somethiing that is questionable in sterility. And too I dont think most folks want to pass a jug around anymore (know what I mean). What I use when folks come by is a tall skinny bottle with a pour spout and it looks really cool, I think its a old olive oil bottle, but no matter it still looks cool.
Offline AzJim  
#12 Posted : Saturday, July 10, 2010 7:53:15 AM(UTC)
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"LWTCS and Others,
No problem with the questions> I typically blow a bit of everything: bowls, vases, tumblers and quite a bit of ""Artsy Stuff"". Gallery sales genuinely suck these days, economy as it is.
Finally got my stock pot and am ordering a few other incidentals to ""get going"".
Next step is cleaning the boiler thoroughly & a dry run (water only) and then re-reviewing the Mashing procedures. Taking it slow and easy, would like my first attempt to be moderately successful. I'm reading Smiley's book as well as the Moonshine book and making comparisons between the Methods and Processes in each text.
Some of the info (I believe !) is a bit contradictory/confusing, especially the ""pitching the yeast"" schedule. I'll try to sort it out and perhaps you Mentors and Others can enlighten me if I'm going totally ""Brain Dead""!!!
Thanks to ALL of you for what you contribute and offer us novices in this exciting endeavor.
Regards,
AzJim
""Artsy"" Moonshine Jug attached."
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Offline AzJim  
#13 Posted : Sunday, July 18, 2010 2:29:05 AM(UTC)
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LWTCS and Others,
Thanks for all of the valuable information, especially regarding the Strip Run, then the forthcoming Spirit Runs. Your comments re: "Lingo" were well taken and finally everything is starting to make sense. We are planning to start our mash Mon or Tues and it should ferment rather quickly with our Az. temperatures. All of your comments were extremely valuable, simple to understand, and hopefully our first run will be moderately successful.
Please continue to post your replies, as your input is invaluable.

On Hand; *50lbs Flaked Maize, Mile Hi Distilling $52.69
*10 lbs 2-row Pale Malt, Mile Hi Distilling, $ 11.78
*Five Star 5.2 Ph Stabilizer
*8 Packets Gert Strand "Prestige WD" Active Dried Yeast, 1 Packet per 25 liters.
Equipment
30 Liter Gooseneck Pot Still with external and internal (flake bucket) worm, Bayou Burner, 2-5gal Propane Tanks, Floating thermometer, proof hydrometer, ph meter, refractometer, racking cane and hose, 2 carboys (10gal, 5 gal), Stainless Steel stock pot, 1 food grade plastic brewery fermentor with lid and airlocks, several collection vessels (Ball Jars).

Questions:
*Upon completing the stripping run and saving the feints, is there a minimum or maximum time that this run can be saved before starting the final Spirit Run?
*I"m using the Flaked Maize from Mile High Distilling (see above) and am curious whether the overall taste with this ingredient is much superior to using something less expensive. (Suggestions?)

I have attached several images of our still house, "rig" and moonshine jug.

Thanks again to All of you for your comments and replies.
Regards,
AzJim
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#2 Still House.jpg (102kb) downloaded 0 time(s).
#3 Interior.jpg (93kb) downloaded 0 time(s).
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Offline LWTCS  
#14 Posted : Sunday, July 18, 2010 10:58:57 PM(UTC)
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"Lovely pictures. A real quaint feel.

That worm is all wrong however. You will need a bit more firstly. Try and get 7 turns and get it down into the bucket.

Idealy the bucket on your would be capable of holding the same volume of liquid as the boiler. This is to insure that that liquid inyour worm bucket can adaquately discharge heat.

Recon it looks big enough after a second look.

Water at the top of the bucket will be very hot. but the water at the bottom will be relatively cool.

Did you do a cleaning run yet?"
Offline AzJim  
#15 Posted : Monday, July 19, 2010 2:14:58 AM(UTC)
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"LWTCS,
I will lengthen the worm either with a splice or a new 7 coil worm. There are currently 3 more coils in the flake stand before it exits the collection spout.
Cleaning run; my plan was to wash it with soap and water, scrub with lemon and salt, rinse with distilled vinegar, then do a full water only run to check for leaks, steam, etc. Also have some copper scrubbers to clean inside the worm before actual stripping run. Does this sound ok? Suggestions PLEASE.
Thank You,
AzJim"
Offline AzJim  
#16 Posted : Monday, July 19, 2010 10:47:15 AM(UTC)
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"LWTCS,
Made a new worm this morning, 10 coils, overall 27' of 1/2"" copper tubing. Cleaned boiler, swans neck and worm with copper scrubbers, then lemon with salt, then a vinegar wash. Ran the boiler up to 212ºF, with approx. 22L of clear water which took about 12 minutes. Held the temp at 200-212ºF for about an hour with no leaks or hissing or steam from the joints. Water in the flake stand was pretty warm (no ice) but we have a 30+L resevoir with a large pond pump recirculating the water.
I think we are ""good to go"".
Making the mash in the morning, 27 Liters, for a stripping run.
Thanks again for all the valuable insight and tips.
Regards,
AzJim"
Offline LWTCS  
#17 Posted : Monday, July 19, 2010 11:01:38 AM(UTC)
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"Water and vinegar (50/50) and /or a trashy bit of alky (cheap wine, cheap vodka diluted to 40% or less.

You could also prep a low budget sugar wash to run (do not drink).

Your water run will act much more differently than liquid containing alcohol.

With your potstill (it is beautiful) do not be concerned with temperatures during your run.
The quantity of alcohol within the wash will determine the boiler charge temp. As your run progresses the alcohol will of course deplete. This will drive the boiler charge temp upward.
Potstills are power managent rigs. Just try to install enough input to create a pencil lead sized stream at the discharge. No need to fiddle around to maintain a specific boiler temp. You will never do it,,,,,nor will you want to.

Large pencil lead would be good for a strip run and tooth pic sized stream would be good for a spirit run.

Bigger the stream, lower the ABV.
Slower/smaller the stream/drip,,,higher the ABV.

If you ain't getting any discharge,,,you need more input (notice I did not say heat)."
Offline AzJim  
#18 Posted : Monday, July 19, 2010 11:25:58 AM(UTC)
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Heeler, not sure if you got my PM, let me know what your interested in for a jug. Can make almost anything you desire
Offline LWTCS  
#19 Posted : Monday, July 19, 2010 11:37:04 AM(UTC)
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"Holly balls Jim.

22 liters in 12 minutesTongue

You got some fire power there.

BTW, don't over charge your boiler. No more than 2/3s to 3/4s full."
Offline AzJim  
#20 Posted : Monday, July 19, 2010 12:26:34 PM(UTC)
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"LWTCS,
We just ran the still for a short period to check what the varying temps would do/ ie; stream diameter with high, med and low heat. Very interesting how it works. I AM getting really Psyched, this is gonna be allot of fun, will keep you posted. Jim"
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