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Offline scotty  
#1 Posted : Thursday, July 15, 2010 12:05:19 AM(UTC)
scotty


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a P.I.D. controll to vary the voltage to the boiler heat element??
Offline ratflinger  
#2 Posted : Sunday, July 18, 2010 2:58:50 AM(UTC)
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Do you have one? I find the cheap router controller works just fine, but I don't wish to discourage research into potentially improved methods. If you are having a hard time with temperature stability the 1st question I'd ask is, "Is your unit fully insulated?" Even on windy days a insulated unit is a lot more stable.
Offline scotty  
#3 Posted : Sunday, July 18, 2010 6:18:52 AM(UTC)
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"Dont be concerned, you wont discourage me-- I already have a variac so i dont need a router controll. Yes i already have a PID controller and am wondering again if any one uses one in thier still operation.

Thanks for the reply:)

Here are some of my toys

http://s35.photobucket.com/albu...cial%20%20hobby%20tools/"
Offline Blackhound  
#4 Posted : Sunday, August 01, 2010 9:57:19 AM(UTC)
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"Yes, I use a PID process/temperature controller on my still from Omega Engineering, It's a Ci3244 controller I believe. Unfortunately, I will have to make or purchase a variac voltage control to aid operationSad. Currently using 240V/30A service, two 3.0kW elements and SSR 25A.

This week I will try swapping one element out for a 1500W to hold a constant (or should I say, an On/Off constant) heat for refluxing! I hope this works because I do not have the $108.00 to order the variac, nor time to build my own!

BH"
Offline scotty  
#5 Posted : Sunday, August 01, 2010 12:15:24 PM(UTC)
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Please Can you tell me why you need the variac. I'm trying to get the temperature regulating concept into my head.:)
Offline Blackhound  
#6 Posted : Sunday, August 01, 2010 1:45:58 PM(UTC)
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"The problem with using the PID controller is that the thermocouple or RTD probe (thermometer) is placed at the top of the still head, not in the boiler, you would have to continually (manually chasing) the settings for heat input depending on mash, alcohol content, etc. and, so what, the mash will boil at what ever it wants to anyway!

You cannot use this controller for this application properly. The PID controller is designed to have a thermocouple directly placed in a liquid, not vapour! The controller uses a On/Off approach to applying heat, it is not a constant heat source, maybe turned down, but CONSTANT heat is what we need! Not On/Off cycled output!

I will try to use my PID, however, I will lose purity and may not get my column to equilize using this method, even by changing one element out to a 1.5kW element. I what to experiment a little and see if I can get the controller to keep the second element on full blast, but at half the wattage! and use the Alarm 2 setting to shut down the boiler.

If I do add a Variac, I will keep the PID controller (room permitting) in my electrical enclosure and use output 1 (the 3.0kW element) to ramp the mash to boil and then have the PID send a 4-20 mA signal to the Variac for manual control of the 1.5kW element for constant heat. Not cycling!

From what I've been reading, this controller (PID) is great for grain infused mashing, but not distilling your final product! This is different.

I spent the last four months designing, reading and making my still, and I still made mistakes, It Is What It Is! and if all else fails, I know a Variac (SCR) controller will work--hands down-- even will out the PID!

I think I'm just as new as you and I'm no pro at distilling, but I hope the info helps! Wink

BH"
Offline scotty  
#7 Posted : Monday, August 02, 2010 1:36:29 AM(UTC)
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"The temp sensor i have with mine is designed for and will be placed in the boiler. I figure about 10 inches from the bottom. My boiler is 6.5 gallons. The 120V 1650 watt element is getting ready to be installed 4 inches above the bottom of the boiler. My choice of locating the sensor for the PID is not based on any formula or good reason. just a guess.
I see you will use a relay to switch to manual controll."
Offline heeler  
#8 Posted : Monday, August 02, 2010 1:56:33 AM(UTC)
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Fellas you sure are making this difficult on yourselves. Install your heating element - make sure it wont leak and then get yourself a -- Router Speed Controller. Thats all you need, I think I paid 35.$ for mine from ebay. Works like a charm. I used a 4500 watt element, (and I know I wont get that much heat with it cause its plugged into 110.) But you turn it on constant for the heatup and then variable for cooking and that baby can dial er right in to whichever temp works best for your setup. Takes about 15 mins for heatup and yer off an running. I metered it several times and the most it ever pulled was 108 volts. And during cooking it was 6.8 amps.
Offline scotty  
#9 Posted : Monday, August 02, 2010 5:20:28 AM(UTC)
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"I believe you are missing what we are doing-- its not just about distilling- we are enjoying ourselves with special controll devices. and attempting to automate at least part of the operation.

And i will repeat myself. i already have a variac.

http://s35.photobucket.com/albu...cial%20%20hobby%20tools/


UserPostedImage"
Offline heeler  
#10 Posted : Monday, August 02, 2010 6:33:44 AM(UTC)
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I stand corrected......does that dinosaur really work. Kinda looks like a fire hazard. Just trying to make someones life easier.
Offline scotty  
#11 Posted : Monday, August 02, 2010 7:03:17 AM(UTC)
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"
Originally Posted by: heeler Go to Quoted Post
I stand corrected......does that dinosaur really work. Kinda looks like a fire hazard. Just trying to make someones life easier.


You are a fat head actually. please stay out of this thread. I had a nice conversation going untill you commented without reading the thread."
Offline heeler  
#12 Posted : Tuesday, August 03, 2010 1:49:55 AM(UTC)
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Ok sorry bub.........
Offline Chore Chunk  
#13 Posted : Tuesday, August 03, 2010 8:58:50 PM(UTC)
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"You do realize it is the alcohol content of your wash or low wines that dictates the column head temperature right? The heat input (wattage) only controls the takeoff rate from a drip to stream. You must always have enough heat to vaporize the liquid and if not kept steady will make the system wishy washy and not give the best output.

I have many PID controllers but see no purpose in using them, though I might just for water control. The tricky part is how to control the output, if it is an analog 4-20mA or 1-10 vdc you need a power conversion module to translate that into high amperage. I was an automation electrician in the food industry for 30 years and have about $15,000 in parts on eBay right now.

If you have any questions on how to set one up let me know but beside a dog and pony show it would be a waste of money as it would be too hard to control. I am all for bells and whistles and kept enough of my controllers for some pretty neat things to do with the still but none include messing with the boiler heat beyond simple wattage control.

I hope this doesn't make me a poopy head like heeler."
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