logo                   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Login


2 Pages<12
Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
Offline tikisteve  
#21 Posted : Tuesday, February 02, 2010 8:47:07 AM(UTC)
tikisteve


Rank: Advanced Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 9/27/2007(UTC)
Posts: 168

Forgot to mention that the link mtnwalker shared didn't work for me either.
Offline mtnwalker2  
#22 Posted : Tuesday, February 02, 2010 9:34:14 AM(UTC)
mtnwalker2


Rank: Senior Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 10/22/2005(UTC)
Posts: 817

"
Originally Posted by: tikisteve Go to Quoted Post
Forgot to mention that the link mtnwalker shared didn't work for me either.


Tried to copy and paste it, but was too long. Will send it in increments for any interested.
Part One""\:



There are three basic styles for making absinthe.
1. Add wormwood to a wine and distill off. Soak some wormwood in neutral spirit to colour, and add the two together.
2. Soak wormwood in some neutral alcohol
3. Adding oil extract to neutral alcohol.

Of these, (1) is the traditional technique, but (2) is commonly used by ""cheaper"" manufacturers. Style (3) is usually shunned.

An article on Absinthe (Scientific American, June 1989, pp112-117) describes a 1855 recipe from Pontarlier, France. Here is a scaled down version you can try:

* Macerate 25g wormwood (Artemisia absinthium), 50g anise, and 50g fennel (all finely divided) in 950ml 85%abv in a 2l flask. (Note: no heat was specified for extraction).
* Add 450ml distilled water.
* Do a pot still distillation, collecting 950ml of distillate.
* Separate 400ml of the distillate, add 10g Roman wormwood (Artemisia pontica), 10g hyssop, 5g lemon balm, and macerate at 60C.
* Filter and reunite with the remaining 550ml and dilute to 74%abv to produce 1litre of Absinthe.

Note: I think you use crushed aniseed and fennel seed, as it is the seed that has the strongest flavor. You can see that it is the anise flavor that predominates.



Swiss Absinthe of Pontarlier

For full Bedel text see: 1899 Treatise on Liqueurs

Grand Wormwood, dried and stripped 2 kil. 500
Green Anise 5
Fennel of Florence 5
Alcohol at 85 degrees 95 litres

Macerate the ingredients with the alcohol for twelve hours or less in a double boiler, then add 45 liters of water heated to 60-80 degrees, and distill slowly, preferably with steam, to obtain 95 liters of product which will be used to prepare the liqueur. Nevertheless, continue distilling, just until the liquid coming out of the still reads zero on the alcohol meter. This blanquette, though only slightly alcoholic, is precious; it contains much essence and it is poured into subsequent batches along with the alcohol and the plants.

The distilled liquid, very fragrant, is white or color- less like water. To transform it into absinthe, it is necessary to color it and reinforce its fragrance.

To obtain a green color, one takes:

Petite Wormwood, dried and stripped 1 kilogr.
Hyssop (dried heads and flowers) 1
Lemon Balm, dried and cleaned 500 gram.

All these ingredients being as finely divided as possible, that is to say, cut, chopped, or crushed; one places them into a double boiler along with the previously distilled product, or better yet into an apparatus called a colorator, of galvanized copper, heated by hot water circulation or by steam, and one heats everything to just around 50 degrees centigrade. Under the influence of this temperature, the plants yield to the liqueur their main natural coloring, chlorophyll, and their fragrance. One cools gently, and passes the colored liquid through a hair sieve, letting the plants drain well, and one adds the quantity of water necessary to reduce (the alcohol content) to 74 degrees and to makeup (the quantity) to 100 liters, and one places it into barrels to age. It is time which finishes the quality.

As translated from the French by Artemis

Swiss Absinthe of Montpellier

For full Bedel text see: 1899 Treatise on Liqueurs

Grand Wormwood, dried and stripped 2 kil. 500
Green Anise 6
Fennel of Florence 4
Coriander 1
Angelica Seeds 500 gram.
Alcohol at 85 degrees 95 liters.

Coloration is done with

Petite Wormwood 1 kilogr.
Dried Moldavian Melissa 750 gram.
Dried Hyssop Flowers 750

The procedure is the same as before.

As translated from the French by Artemis



Absinthe Ale

This is a recipe I got from an old book called ""The English Hous-wife"", circa 1656, which contained a recipe for ""Wormwood Water"".

* 2 gallons Ale
* 1 pound Aniseed
* 1/2 lb Licorice
* 2 handfulls dried wormwood

Grind finely the Aniseed, Licorice and mix with the Wormwood and Ale.
Let stand overnight. Then heat over a moderate fire.


Scientific American Recipe by Dr. Arnold

Distilled

* 2.5 kilograms of dried wormwood
* 5 kilograms of anise
* 5 kilograms of fennel
* 95 liters of 85 percent ethanol
* 45 liters of water
* 1 kilogram of Roman wormwood
* 1 kilogram of hyssop
* 500 grams of lemon balm

An 1855 recipe from Pontarlier, France, gives the following instructions for making absinthe: Macerate 2.5 kilograms of dried wormwood, 5 kilograms of anise and 5 kilograms of fennel in 95 liters of 85 percent ethanol by volume. Let the mixture steep for at least 12 hours in the pot of a double boiler. Add 45 liters of water and apply heat; collect 95 liters of distillate. To 40 liters of the distillate, add 1 kilogram of Roman wormwood, 1 kilogram of hyssop and 500 grams of lemon balm, all of which have been dried and finely divided. Extract at a moderate temperature, then siphon off the liquor, filter, and reunite it with the remaining 55 liters of distillate. Dilute with water to produce approximately 100 liters of absinthe with a final alcohol concentration of 74 percent by volume (4).



797. To Make Absinthe by Distillation.
From ""Dick's Encyclopedia of Practical Receipts & Processes or How They Did It in the 1870's"", by Dick Brisbane, first published 1870

Put the follwing ingredients into a cask:

1 1/2 pounds large absinthe (wormwood, artemisia absinthium)
2 pounds small absinthe (petit wormwood, roman wormwood, artemisia pontica)
2 1/2 pounds long fennel
2 1/2 pounds star anise (breaking the star only)
2 1/2 pounds green anise seed
6 ounces coriander seed
1 pound hyssop

Moisten the whole with a little water, allowing it time to soften and swell; then add 12 gallons 95 percent alcohol, and steep for 2 or 3 days; next add 10 gallons water, and let the whole steep for 1 day more. The water will reduce the alcohol to about 23 gallons of proof spirit. Distill it, and it will produce nearly 15 gallons absinthe of 65 to 70 percent strenght. Change the receiver as soon as the spirit, as it comes from the worm, begins to assume a reddish tinge. Color the distilled product, by steeping in it for 10 or 15 days:

1/2 pound mint leaves
1/4 pound melissa leaves
1/2 pound small absinthe (petit wormwood, roman wormwood, artemisia pontica)
2 ounces citron peel
1/2 pound brused liquorice root

Strain and Filter

Please See: Dick's Notes on Distillation



798. Absinthe by Distillation
From ""Dick's Encyclopedia of Practical Receipts & Processes or How They Did It in the 1870's"", by Dick Brisbane, first published 1870

This is made in the same manner as in the former receipt (recipe), with the following ingredients:

40 gallons 75 percent spirits
20 pounds fennel
20 pounds green anise
16 pounds large absinthe (wormwood, artemisia absinthium)
1 pound coriander
20 gallons water

This is colored, after distillation, by adding; 4 pounds small absinthe and heating it again as hot as the hand can bear; then extinguish the fire, let it cool, settle, and filter it.

Please See: Dick's Notes on Distillation



The Practical Distiller Recipe, 1889
Excerpted from ""The Practical Distiller,"" by Leonard Montzert, 1889.

The operation of distilling French liqueurs, such as anisette, absinthe, curacoa, maraschino, etc., should be performed in a regular cordial still, fitted with a water bath.

Absinthe is a product of Switzerland. It is well known on both continents as a powerful stimulant and is highly esteemed by the French. The greater portion used in this country (he means the USA) is imported in bottles from the country from whence it originated. The manner of producing this liqueur was for many years kept a profound secret, being handed down from father to son for generations. It is now prepared to a certain extent in this country by a French cordial manufacturers, who have succeeded in producing an Absinthe which, when ripened by age, is in every way equal to that which is imported, and, in fact can not be distinguished from it.

Take 20 pounds long absinthe (wormwood)
24 pounds small absinthe (Roman Wormwood/Pontica)
33 pounds green anise seed
33 pounds fennel
33 pounds star anise
4 pounds coriander seeds
10 pieces hyssop.

Put all of these ingredients into 125 gallons (473 liters) of fine spirits at 190 proof. Allow this to remain twenty days, stirring once every day, at the expiration of which time the whole substance is put into a cordial still, together with fifteen gallons of water, and distilled.

The distilling in this case requires great precaution in its management. The heat must be kept uniform throughout the whole operation, so that the liquor will flow very regularly; not to fast, as that would render the product bitter; not to slowly, as it would be milky.

The exact heat required in this instance can only be learned by experience; the operator must be guided by the flavor and aroma of the running liquor, during the process.

When the charge is nearly run off, a fact which is ascertained by comparing the amount distilled, with that which has been put in the still, keep a strict watch for the feints, or low wines; this is indicated by the running diminishing in size and the liquor becoming milky."
Offline mtnwalker2  
#23 Posted : Tuesday, February 02, 2010 9:37:18 AM(UTC)
mtnwalker2


Rank: Senior Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 10/22/2005(UTC)
Posts: 817

"Part 2

At this stage of the operation, the receiver must be changed, and the feints run off separately, as they are not suitable for mixing with the clear running. The quality of the product will depend in a great measure on the proper observation of this latter precaution.

If quantity is more an object than quality, or if a second quality is desired, as soon as the feints appear, add more water to the dregs in the still and distill again; this second drawing may be mixed with the first or used as second class goods.

When the distillation is completed, the next thing is to color the liquor. For this purpose take as follows:

5 pounds mint leaves,
2 1/2 pounds melissa leaves,
3 1/2 pounds hyssop,
5 pounds small absinthe,
5 pounds liquorice root (cut).
1 1/2 pounds citron peel.

Put the ingredients in the liquor which has been distilled, and allow the whole to remain until the desired color is obtained; then draw it off into another cask and reduce the alcoholic strength to 120 proof, or in other words, 60 percent, and it is ready for bottling.


DUPLAIS' SWISS ABSINTHE OF LYON
(For 100 liters)

SOURCE: TREATISE ON THE MANUFACTURE OF LIQUEURS AND ON THE DISTILLATION
OF ALCOHOLS

By P. Duplais
Edited by M. Arpin and E. Portier
Gauthier-Villars, Paris, 1900

Translated by Artemis © 2003.

Grand Wormwood, dried 3 kg
Green Anise 8 kg
Fennel of Florence 4 kg
Angelica Seeds 500 gram
Alcohol at 85 degrees 95 liters

Color

Lemon Balm, dried and culled 1 kg
Petite Wormwood, dried 1 kg
Dried Hyssop Flowers 500 gram
Dried Veronica 500 gram

DUPLAIS' SWISS ABSINTHE OF FOUGEROLLES
(For 600 liters)

SOURCE: TREATISE ON THE MANUFACTURE OF LIQUEURS AND ON THE DISTILLATION
OF ALCOHOLS

By P. Duplais
Edited by M. Arpin and E. Portier
Gauthier-Villars, Paris, 1900

Translated by Artemis © 2003.

Green Anise 45 kg
Fennel of Florence 25 kg
Grand Wormwood, stripped 16 kg

Color

Lemon Balm 4.5 kg
Hyssop 3.5 kg
Petite wormwood 4 kg
Veronica 4 kg
Alcohol at 85 degrees 570 liters
Water 300 liters

Macerate the ingredients with the alcohol in the apparatus for at least twelve hours; add water at the time of distillation, to withdraw 570 liters of scented spirit; once this quantity has been obtained, continue distillation, to obtain phlegms, which will be set aside and used in another operation; reduce to 74 degrees.

DUPLAIS' SWISS ABSINTHE OF BESANCON
(For 600 liters)

SOURCE: TREATISE ON THE MANUFACTURE OF LIQUEURS AND ON THE DISTILLATION
OF ALCOHOLS

By P. Duplais
Edited by M. Arpin and E. Portier
Gauthier-Villars, Paris, 1900

Translated by Artemis © 2003.

Grand Wormwood, stripped 24 kg
Green Anise 30 kg
Fennel of Florence 40 kg
Coriander 4 kg

Color

Melissa 3 kg
Petite wormwood 6 kg
Hyssop 5.5 kg
Veronica 4 kg
Alcohol at 85 degrees 570 liters
Water 300 liters

Procedure is the same as before.


SEPULCHRITUDE and its Contents © 1996-200



True, but distillation seems to remove most of the absinthin oil which makes it bitter in the first place. I have experimented myself and using the Dick's recipie once with roman wormwood in the colouration step, once with regular absinthe in the colouration step, and once with no colouration step.
The roman wormwood gave it some bitterness but not nearly as much as using regular wormwood. Skipping the colouration step produced a very mellow absinthe with nearly no bitterness.



Gently heating the macerate would accelerate the extraction but it is not necessary at all unless your in a hurry (wich is never a good thing when crafting high quality stuf) because if you slowly heat up the charge when you`r ready to distill, it will have the same effect then anyway. The old guys where usually talking about a maceration time of 24 to 48 hours. Pernod catalog say 24. Nobody I know talked about heating during the maceration.

That being said, if it is gently done and if the rest of the process is ok, I don`t think it would do any harm.



Just try the Pontarlier recipe exactly as it is in Bedel (macerate for 12 hours or more), and see what works and what doesn't, THEN experiment. You have to start at the beginning to move forward, you can't start in the middle. You'll waste a lot of money if you approach it any other way.

Batch 1 with the A.A. in the coloring has been reprocessed to a blanche, and then had A.P.(and other herbs) added for coloring. It is now much better than it was. Nice color too.

I'm using too much Star Anise and or Fennel, and will have to back off on the next batch. All three batches to date are overly strong on the anise flavor when using a directly scaled Bedel recipe. (100:1 scaling factor)



The basics of Tails management is spelled out really well in Bedel/DuPlais. An alcoholmeter and your nose will be your best friend...
There's more to it than what Bedel says, but he points you in the right direction. Just don't collect everything in one container so you don't risk ruining your batch w/ tails and you'll be fine.

---

I was thinking one would collect in one container, and tasting it periodically. If it does not taste bad, and still has flavor, I pour it into a second container which would be the 'keep' container and put the first container back under the outlet of the condenser. Taste it every ounce or so for such a small batch as 1 to 1.5L."
Offline mtnwalker2  
#24 Posted : Tuesday, February 02, 2010 9:40:14 AM(UTC)
mtnwalker2


Rank: Senior Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 10/22/2005(UTC)
Posts: 817

"Part 3

In an effort to better understand the spices, I made my last batch (#4) with way less. Only used 4gr fennel, 2.5gr green anise, and 2gr star anise in the pre- rectification maceration. I also used 1gr of spearmint in the coloring phase which worked out nicely, although a bit strong in comparison to the anise flavor.

Problem with this batch is very little louche at 2:1, and it fades to non-existent at 3:1. It appears to me that the fennel, green anise and star anise all contribute to the louche. Hyssops, Lemmon balm, coriander and A.A do not.

Star anise is my guess for the strongest contributor for louche due to it's oil content, but it also contributes the strongest flavor. So, it looks like there is no way to increase louche without increasing anise/fennel flavor. Yes, no?

Another thing I am beginning to see is that even if I track the individual thresholds of the spices in ppm, they interact like in cooking and you can't just say x grams of A, plus y grams of B, plus z grams of C will give me a balanced flavor. It is more art than science.



I experimented a lot with sort of odd things in the beginning, and wasted a lot of time and money. I would recommend using the Pontarlier recipe exactly as it appears. Then, slowly make changes to it, one thing at a time.

It sounds like you are worried about the louche. You should be able to get a decent louche without any star anise, assuming you use enough herbs of decent quality. See the Pontarlier recipe for proportions.
Also, if you are using a high-reflux still, that will cause your louche to be weak. But anyway, I wouldn't worry about that so much as I'd worry about getting a good balanced flavour.



Nor reflux stil. Just a simple lab type 2L flask and condenser. I started with the Pontarlier recipe and divided by 100 to get to a 1L batch. Spices are too strong. I'm trying to back it off now to get something more balanced.



Alcohol is 750ml bottle of 95% EverClear. This works out to the equivalent of roughly 840ml of 85% alcohol when adding 90ml of water. By the time all additions (tails, water, etc) are made, this ends upbeing more than 1.6L

If the system is loss-less, or close to it, this should result in 1L of 71.25% solution. 68% would be nice. The first batch was only 62%, second 66%, Third 68%. Using tails eventually achieves system that looks loss-less.

The new Anise seems to add a slight aroma like cumin. It will be hot, but should be ready to sample tomorrow night.



No additional wormwood since this is going back through the rectifier. Original batch that had too little flavor (because I can't divide 5kg by 100 and get 50gr)
45gr Green anise, ground in a mill
45gr fennel, ground in a mill

It took six hours to finish the rectification phase.

To 40% of this was added:
1gr A. Pontica
50 gr Hyssops
50gr Lemon Balm
This was then heated to 50C in a ball jar. A lid was screwed in place, and it was wrapped in towels for 10 hrs.

This was then strained and add back to the remaining 60%.

Water was added to get to 1L (0.881sp-gr/about 73%abv)

Nice green color. Strong fennel and anise aroma with another 'dirty' aroma like cumin.

1:1 - already louching. It has a hot, Strong flavor that numbs the tongue.
1:2 - better but still hot and the cumin like flavor is there.
1:3.5 starting to mellow, but the flavors are strong. Anise and fennel are dominant with the cumin like flavor still there.
1:4 - starting to smooth out. dusty green color with pleasant louche.

The initial flavor on the tip of the tongue is cumin. This is passes over the tongue and top of the mouth to be displaced by anise, then fennel last.

Bitterness is almost non-existent.

SIX hours to distill one liter? OMG! Colouring herbs left in for TEN hours? OHOH. I would suspect that the ""dirty"" aroma probably is tails that came over with your distillate.


When they say distill slowly, they're not talking 1 drop per second, they're referring to big ass professional stills, which can crank out a liter in about 15 minutes, maybe even faster. Slow for them might be 25 minutes a liter. I'm just guessing at the numbers, but slow for 100L recipe in a steam heated professional still ain't the same slow as slow in a pressure cooker on a cheap K-Mart burner

BTW, if you used 50g of Hyssop and 50g of Melissa per liter in the colouring, your herbs would have soaked up all the alcohol you were trying to colour. Ever hear of proofreading?



Some coloring herbs:
Melissa
pepper mint
Hyssop
A.Pontica
Damiana



I would avoid cold soaking of the herbs, as it takes more herbs to do it that way and it's not going to taste the same. The easiest way I know of to colour w/ herbs is to get out your calculator and come up with a divisor of Bedel's recipe which is proportionate to the amount of Absinthe you're trying to colour. For example, if you were colouring 750ml of Blanche, you would add 8 grams of A. Pontica, 8 Grams of Hyssop, and 4 grams of Lemon Balm. Chop the A. Pontica, and grind the Hyssop & Melissa into a powder. Put the herbs and the Blanche into a double boiler and cover, and then heat it slowly to 50c. As soon as it reaches that temperature, remove it from the heat and let it set till it's room temperature again. Don't let it get too much hotter than 50c or you'll risk evaporating some of the alcohol.
Then pour it through a couple of Coffee filters, filtering out the herb sediment. It might taste a little ""grassy"" at first, but letting it sit (in the dark!) for a few weeks will help mellow it out a bit, but also shake it before you pour a glass. It'll give you a fairly decent peridot colour. This is the easiest way to get okay results I know of.



BTW, just to clarify, you should only add the herbs to 42% of the Blanche, colour that portion, and reunite it with the rest of the Blanche when you have strained it and cooled it. (example: DuPlais says 1kg A. Pontica & Hyssop, .5kg Lemon Balm for 100 liters of Absinthe, but only add colouring herbs to 40 liters of that. So math says if you're trying to colour 750ml, you should add 7.5g A. Pontica & Hyssop, 3.75g Lemon Balm to 320ml, colour it, then add back to the 430ml Blanche you didn't colour).

Also keep in mind that you might need to add a larger quantity of herbs than your recipe suggests as your alcohol is probably already at 68%, whereas Bedel & DuPlais's recipes are coloured at 85%, before they are diluted down to 74%. It's better to err on the side of less herbs though, cause too much and you'll ruin it...

You probably already figured this out, but I just figured I'd clarify...

I will say though that I have no idea why these recipes say to add the quantity of herbs to 42% of the Blanche as opposed to all of it, since you're adding that back to the rest of the distillate once the colour is extracted anyway. If you soak a teabag in 1/2 cup of water, then add the other 1/2 cup of water after the tea has infused, will the flavour be any different? Any experts out there have any ideas on why you only apply colouration to around 40% of the distillate?



Interesting Larry...

My calculator says 1g A.Pontica, 1g Hyssop and .5g lemon Balm for a liter.

That's interesting, maybe in smaller quantities it's not proportionate? Is there a formula? I know next to nothing about chemistry, I just assumed it worked the same as cooking, where if you wanted to make chicken to serve 2 people but your recipe was for 8 people, you'd just divide everything by 4 and it would wor"
Offline mtnwalker2  
#25 Posted : Tuesday, February 02, 2010 9:44:01 AM(UTC)
mtnwalker2


Rank: Senior Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 10/22/2005(UTC)
Posts: 817

"part 4


Hmmm, after further experimentation I see your Absinthe calculator is correct...
1g of a. Pontica & Hyssop, and .5g Melissa makes a nice colour.
As they say, back to the drawing board!



I have seen advice to skip coloration if A.Pontica is not available, and NOT to use A.A. as a substitute.

Why not color with Hyssops and Lemon Balm alone. Does this give unbalanced flavor additions without A.Pontice?



A.Pontica is a little bit over rated. Probably just because it's rare. For sure if you can get your hands on some (grow it and dry it properly yourself...), it is a must but it is absolutely possible to color absinthe without it and still get a nice result.

If an herb is green and taste good when you shew on it, it's probably because it could be a good candidat.



I've been interested in Absinthe for many years.

Since it is (1) unavailable locally, (2) expensive to order, and (3) it is how I think, I'm making my own.

I used a base of Everclear for the wormwood and anise extraction. 750ml EC, 1oz A.Absinthia, 1oz Star Anise. let it set for a month (I got busy), seperate by heat method.

After processing it, I ended up with 750ml of clear liquid with a slight anise aroma and flavor. Bitter too.

I added 10gr wormwwod(yea, I know I need Pontice, but havn't located any yet) and 10gr hyssops, 5 gr lemmon balm, 5 gr anise seeds, 5gr star anise.

The end product turned out ruddy green-brown, nice flavor, bitter, and produces the expected mental attitude.

I've noticed that the color is shifting from green-brown to brown.
Oxidation of the chlorophyl maybe?


Naturally colored absinthe will go from green to dead leaf brown when it is exposed to sun/heat and time. There are ways to reduce the discoloration, but I think you're time would be wasted at this point.

If you click on the feeverte.net banner above you'll be transported to a site that has some classic recipes. These are the ratios (mostly) and procedures that were used in the olden times. I suggest you begin your research there.



Feeverte.net, and the absinthe web ring linked sites is where I got a lot of my information, and the basic recipe. I tried to follow the basics of Pernod, but as I stated did not have the A.Pontice and sub'd AA.

On the other hand, it does not taste all that bad, and may not last too long. I'm less worried about the color (green was nice) than I am the overall product. It think it is a reasonable starting point. I'm just wondering how much thujone is transfered during distillation from the initial wormwood addition. If it is not much, then the A. Pontice would provide most of it in the finished absinthe. It would seem that a fair amount is present in this batch, or I'm particularly sensitive to it.



Rule #1 - Thujone is not a word to be uttered in a serious tone. It's a load of crap foisted upon us by years of misinformation and marketing hype. DON'T WORRY ABOUT HOW MUCH THUJONE IS IN YOUR ABSINTHE.

Rule #2 - Don't ever ever ever... I mean ever, substitute A.Abs, for A.Pontica in the coloring step. You will shrivel the mouth of anyone that drinks it.

Hyssop, lemonbalm and A.Pontica are the coloring agents. For A.Pontica try cascadeherbs. the email address is back at feeverte.



OK, no A. Abainthium after the first process. Is it necessary to add any herbs at all after distillation? Do the major consitiuants of Absinthe come from the first mixing of herbs with 85-95% alcohol and distillation, and only coloration and minor flavoring from the second herb addition? I tried the lemmon balm and hysop and found I couldn't taste anything from them when I chewed them.

Poor quality herbs from the local heatlhfood store, or minor constituants? If you're tasting nothing from the herbs you buy, then you're buying herbs from the wrong place. Melissa (lemon balm) should have a minty lemon taste (almost like lemon pledge). Hyssop is also a mint-like flavor, but more earthy-flower-mint. The intial herbs used for maceration will generally leave a bitter taste if simply soaked in alcohol and then consumed. The distillation removes the bitter flavors, and lets the desireable ones through. The coloring herbs are less bitter, but just as flavorfull. So in the proportions used, they don't require distillation to taste ""good"".



If you can't get A Pontica skip the coloring step and make a tasty blanche. Good luck!



If you cannot get A.Pontica you can still color a blanche with Melissa and Hyssop. You'll get an intense green, and you'll miss out on the dimension that A.Pontica adds to the flavor, but it can be done without HORRIBLE results.

In addition to the aformentioned 3, there are many other herbs that can be used in the coloring step.



From what I gather, I should make a base batch of Blanche, which I seem to have down ok. Then split the batch and try different herb combinations for the final flavor / feel characteristics..

I noticed last night that the hysop seems to have a tart / bitter aftertaste. It might be interesting to try it with some other herbs like the lemon balm and tarragon. is it necessary to use alcohol to make a tinture to try for flavor, or can a hot water steep (tea) be used to test different herb combinations?

Lemon balm sounds good. I'd skip the tarragon, though. It's good on chicken, but I don't know if I'd want to drink it...



Herbs that are easy to find decent quality online:
Anise seed, Melissa, Long Fennel and Star Anise. Get them from MountainRose or www.kalyx.com. Everything else will take lots of research (or insider tips) to find. Everybody has wormwood, but good luck finding quality wormwood! Same goes for Hyssop. Everybody has hyssop, but nobody has hyssop tops, which are what you want. Veronica IMO is a pretty bland herb not worth the effort it takes to find it.



I currently grow my own hops for brewing. I garden. So I figure I should be able to grow an herb garden. A friend is sending me some A.A., both dried and seeds to plant. The A.P. is more difficult to find. Most nurseries I have found that do carry it do not have it in stock now since they expect you to plant in april or may. I may have to wait till next year for that. Lemmon Balm and hyssop are next on my list after that. Then the lesser herbs as well if I can.


You can get a 20cl size of Emile Pernot from LDF just to see what you're after.



In reviewing the recommendations above, it looks like I got the maceration and distillation about right. I was smart enough to use a electric heated stir plate as my heat source since I was using a 2L flask as my separation unit. The secondary spice additions were close, missing veronica(per some recipes).

I screwed the pooch by using A.A. instead of A.P. in the second spice addition.



Anyone ever use Grains of Paradise in HG? It is nice and spicy in Belgian Wit. Might be interesting to try with corriander in addition to Lemon Balm and Hyssops.


Hmmm. It appears I have made another fau-pa(sp). I used star anise in the second soaking. This provides a nice louche, but seems to be verboten according to some writings.



A majority of the problem is with tradition. Please chime in if I'm barking up the wrong tree...

Absinthe had been made with star, rather than green anise, in the past. It was cheaper, intense, and gave a great louche. So the cheaper producers used star, and the ""better"" ones used green. Somehow that evolved into the concept that any star anise in absinthe is a bad thing.

I think a little star anise in absinthe can help round things out, and provide a thicker louche. The ratio has to be really low though.

Using just wormwood and star anise could only produce mediocre to poor results...



Whereas just wormwood and green anise can produce wonderful results, with some oak. I like the flavor of star anise. Need to educate my palate I guess."
Offline mtnwalker2  
#26 Posted : Tuesday, February 02, 2010 9:48:15 AM(UTC)
mtnwalker2


Rank: Senior Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 10/22/2005(UTC)
Posts: 817

"part 5


At around the same time, it was becoming generally accepted that thujone, a terpene found in wormwood, was responsible for absinthe's secondary effects, detrimental or otherwise. It is often stated that the absinthe produced in the 19th century had much larger amounts of thujone present than are allowed in today's versions of the drink, which have to comply with EU limits of 10 mg/l. Values as high as 260 mg/l have been quoted by Arnold (Absinthe, Arnold WN, Scientific American, 1989 Jun, 260(6):112-7). However analytical techniques available in the 19th century were not capable of separating thujone from many of the related compounds present in the essential oils of the plants used to make absinthe and it is therefore likely that concentrations were grossly overestimated. Indeed, Bedel gives the amount of dried wormwood used in a typical recipe as 2.5 kg in 100 l which, based on widely accepted yields of oil, equates to 87.5 mg/l of oil, of which between 34 and 72% will comprise thujone, giving a final maximum concentration of thujone in the predistilled absinthe of 30 to 63 mg/l assuming 100% extraction (Traite Complet de la Fabrication Des Liqueurs, Bedel, 1899, Paris). However not all of the thujone will find its way into the distillate, and the final concentration in the finished absinthe would have been lower still. This is indeed confirmed when GLC analysis is applied to samples of absinthes and the results do show much lower thujone levels than expected. Analyses were performed on a sample of vintage Pernod fils circa 1900, a sample of absinthe produced by a home distiller and two modern commercial absinthes produced by traditional methods in Pontarlier, France by using 19th century protocols. The vintage Pernod absinthe is shown to have the lowest concentration of total thujone of any of the samples tested and the highest is found in the Swiss sample, but even this was lower than the EU limit of 35 mg/l for thujone in bitters.

The convulsive ED50 of thujone in rats is 35.5 mg/kg/day po, and the 'no effect' level is 12.5 mg/kg/day po (Margaria, R. (1963) Acute and sub-acute toxicity study on thujone. Unpublished report of Istito di Fisiologia, Università di Milano). No toxicity studies have been conducted in humans but the FDAs accepts a safe level for food additives as a highly conservative 100 times less than the no effect level in animals. Thus a safe (no effect) dose of thujone could be extrapolated as 8.75 mg/day for a 70 kg human and it can be seen that even at the highest concentrations found in any of the samples tested, the effects of the alcohol would far outweigh those of the thujone.

In conclusion, there is no evidence that absinthe ever contained the high concentrations of thujone that would have led to detrimental effects or that it has hallucinogenic or mind altering properties. The health problems experienced by chronic users were likely to have been caused by adulterants in inferior brands and by the high levels of alcohol present. Claims for beneficial effects must also be treated with some scepticism as again, the detrimental effects of the alcohol would presumably outweigh any benefits. It seems likely that the phenomenal success of absinthe during the 19th century was due to one factor, the French love of aniseed drinks. The modern equivalent of absinthe, pastis, is by far the most popular distilled spirit in France with 125 million litres being consumed annually. Perhaps the reason that so much absinthe was consumed, and absintheurs waxed so lyrically about it was simply because it tasted good.

An interesting point regarding color. Modern Pernod is colored artificially, as likely are most absinthes today. Much easier and less costly just to throw some coloring in the otherwise clear distillate than undergo the delicate cholorphyllic coloring step. Therefore, the colors of these supposed absinthes will vary accordingly. Original Pernod absinthe is vivid pale green, like the gemstone Peridot. Chlorophyll is not stable in alcohol concentrations below around 65 degrees, and will eventually oxidize to a yellow hue. Furthermore, lesser alcohol concentrations (e.g. 45-50 degrees) cannot support the herbal content of absinthe of old. Back to color, although all absinthe of old was initially green, lesser quality labels with lower alcohol concentrations likely succumbed to oxidation, and hence the descriptions of a 'yellowish green' color. Finally, even the very green liqueurs give off a subtle yellowish opalescent tint when they louche.



1) What is the traditional method of preparing & drinking absinthe?

1. Pour 1 part absinthe into glass
2. Place absinthe spoon over glass
3. Place 1 cube of sugar on spoon
4. Very slowly, drip the ice water over the sugar cube until the glass is nearly full (if you drip slowly enough, the entire sugar cube should be dissolved).

The general rule of thumb is 1 part absinthe to 5 parts water, it all depends on the size of the glass, and traditional absinthe bistro glasses came in many shapes and sizes. If you are not lucky enough to have an absinthe fountain, prepare a pitcher of ice water before hand in a glass decanter. And remember, this all prepared to taste. Many of the modern absinthe brands are already quite sweet and therefore can do without the sugar.



Can someone tell me why they said to use 1 Kg of Artemisia pontica per 100 liters in the coloration process in the translation of the historical Swiss Absinthe of Pontarlier Recipe???Gasspectro said to use 1gram per liter!!!!Is it a conspiracy of Artemise to drive all the new Hg producers making bad stuff. Do you think he changed the original amounts of the recipes???

Also, remember that A. ponticus is not as bitter as A. absinthium, so I'm not sure that 10g/ liter verses 1g/liter will make a batch undrinkable. But I really don't know, I'm merely speculating in a very uncomfortable state of sobriety.

As for the questions about coloration herb weights. I can only suspect that the ratios are not a direct equasion. I'm sure the weights given are adequate for 100 liters. When you scale it down to 1 liter you may have to play a little.

10 grams per liter WILL make a batch undrinkable, and a very ugly dark green colour.
It's no intentional error of Artemis, he has no need to sabotage HG'ers as any novice HG'er will sabotage themself no matter how sincere they may be when starting out. The only error I suspect in Artemis's translation is the length of the maceration time. DuPlais says ""At least 12 hours"", where Artemis's translation says ""12 hours or less.""
The difference in French is either ""Au Moins"" or ""Ou Moins"". It's an easy mistake to make. It could even be a typo in Bedel for all I know, as I'm sure Artemis's translation is pretty good, but I really doubt you're only supposed to macerate for 12 hours or less, although maybe slowly heating as you're macerating could speed things up...

I'm not exactly sure the reason why it's 1g per liter instead of the mathematically correct 10 grams, but 1 gram is correct. It's the same reason why if you're making a pot of tea (8 cups) you usually put in 10 teaspoons as opposed to 8 just because it tastes closer to 1 teaspoon would in 1 cup. Science doesn't tell you this. Experimentation will. That's the art part my friend.

As for maceration times. I've heard 12-24....or sometimes more. It's an ancient art and there are a lots of variables. Alcohol percentage, grind of herb, temp, still setup/design and more importantly QUALITY OF HERBS.

I wonder if the run of the mill internet herb supplier can send you herbs that are flavorably comparable to the ones used by Duplais and Bedel.

The translation says 1 kg because the French text says 1 kg. That's for 100 liters. Any assumptions about how these quantities scale to a different number of liters are almost sure to be wrong. Any guesses about whether the French writer INTENDED to write 1 kg are just that, guesses, but the figure is repeated over and over in the works of deceased Frogs who wrote about this stuff. That doesn't mean it's right, because they copied from each other quite a bit.

""DuPlais says ""At least 12 hours"", where Artemis's translation says ""12 hours or less."" Duplais is of course written in French, so it doesn't say ""At least 12 hours"". And in any case, the text which was translated was by Bedel, not Duplais. And yes, I made a mistake translating it. In English, it should say ""at least 12 hours"". The translation was done in a hurry so Frenchman Phil could get it up on his website in a hurry - some mistakes were made, all of which were corrected in subsequent reworking, but I don't remember who has what revision any more, so you may still see it with some errors.

--------------------------"
Offline mtnwalker2  
#27 Posted : Tuesday, February 02, 2010 9:50:04 AM(UTC)
mtnwalker2


Rank: Senior Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 10/22/2005(UTC)
Posts: 817

"Part 6

Artemisia Pontica adds a very nice ""herbal"" character to your finished product. One aspect of adding Roman wormwood in the final flavor/color step, is to tone down the neon green that the addition of hyssop and lemon balm add to the finished product. If you are trying to go ""traditional"" by all means don't skip the pontica. Most HGs that I have sampled use around 1-2 grams of each of the coloring herbs. YMMV.


Don't heat up the macerate to speed up the process.
Definitely don't macerate for a month.

Just try the Pontarlier recipe exactly as it is in Bedel (macerate for 12 hours or more), and see what works and what doesn't, THEN experiment. You have to start at the beginning to move forward, you can't start in the middle. You'll waste a lot of money if you approach it any other way.


The basics of Tails management is spelled out really well in Bedel/DuPlais. An alcoholmeter and your nose will be your best friend...
There's more to it than what Bedel says, but he points you in the right direction. Just don't collect everything in one container so you don't risk ruining your batch w/ tails and you'll be fine.


A.Pontica is a little bit over rated. Probably just because it's rare.

For sure if you can get your hands on some (grow it and dry it properly yourself...), it is a must but it is absolutely possible to color absinthe without it and still get a nice result.

If an herb is green and taste good when you shew on it, it's probably because it could be a good candidat.


This is just to let you know that Moonman have reached a new level. He now know what to do with his tail (that`s it, laugh all you want I`m giving you this one as an easy prey).

His he the only one who now know how to make absinthe that doesn`t taste of tails at all and without losing any ethanol (or let`s say less than 5%) ? Batch 16 will be the first to be fully done that way (using tails from batch 15) and it should be ready to drink in march.

The secret is out there for those who know where to look and how to make research and knows what they are talking about. This is no rocket science but you have to understand what you`r doing.


Wolf,
Yes the answer is out there....
Duplais 1871ed. pp. 418, 236-246 (English edition)
Duplais 1900ed. pp. 342-356 (French edition)
J.de Brevans 1897ed. pp. 99-106 (English edition_
Bedel 1897ed. pp.299-301 (Spanish edition)
and of course countless other souls who seek the truth.....


Yes, BJ, when I came into the Forum I was using 3 g of A. absinthium in the coloring process. We all know that since I was (to my knowledge), the only guy there who ever shared his recipe. Shortly afterwards, I became aware of Artemis' excellent translation of the Treaty on the Manufacture of Liquours.


Here's a freebie from the above mentioned books. In the coloring step, no more than ONE gram of A.Pontica per liter. That is all.


The books that I mentioned are a virtual cornocopia of knowledge. They cover virtually everything anyone would want to know about distillation. Duplais is VERY detailed in the procedures for many, many alcoholic liquors. Absinthe actually occupies only a few pages out of an eighthundred page book.

----------------\

An English copy of DuPlais isnt too difficult to find if you have a good library nearby, and you can just photocopy it, or you can buy a copy on Alibris for around $700. I suspect the French version is probably easier to find than the English, and I think the English translation is bizarre. I've never seen Bedel anywhere, but I'm convinced Bedel just requoted simplified versions of what was already in DuPlais (Bedel is 1899, DuPlais 1st ed. is from before 1860 I think.)


I happen to have both books by Duplais and Bedel (1900 eds.), both in the original French, and the English versions. I find the translation by Dr. McKennie (1871) to be an excellent translation of Duplais' work. Some of the 19th century syntax and phraseology is different from we are used to, but on the whole, very readable.

http://www.alibris.com/search/d...mp;matches=6&qsort=r

http://www.feeverte.net/bedel/


The absithe tails smell and taste a little bit like burnt peanut oil.They are used for the mash of the next batch.When you know your still very well you know approximetly at what tempature on your column's thermometer they gonna come out.For the last liter of the distillation process You can taste and smell a little sample every 100 ml to prevent them.As soon as you can detect them you start collecting them for the next batch.Stop collecting the tails when you have no more alchool coming out of the still.It takes a lot of practice and you have to know your still very well.


It's not a bad idea to add the tails as part of the maceration, prior to distillation, cause there's still some alcohol in the tails usually, which can save you a little $ each time.


Basically, the tails are literally the ""tail end"" of the distillation - when alcohol content drops, and you start getting lots of ""other"" stuff in the distillate. Stuff like essential oils, water, and god knows what else. Often, the temperature will also be rising at this point (above approx. 79C). The tails smell and taste a different, usually somewhat bad, and may even be a light yellowish color. However, they still contain ethanol and essential oils - stuff you'd like to eventually end up in your absinthe.

So, what you do is you ""cut,"" that is, you change the receiver, when you start to detect tails. Detecting tails can be sort of tricky. Some peope rely on temperature, some on smell, some on alcohol content, and some on supernatural guidence, and/or a mixture of these factors. When tails are detected, the effective distillation for that batch has ended. The ""middles"" are kept for that batch, colored, bottled, drunk, etc.

The stuff that is still being collected can be added into the maceration/distillation of the next batch, to increase flavor (remember, it contains essential oils) and to avoid wasting alcohol (it also contains some alcohol).

When you distill the next batch, you will again end up with some tails, and the cycle repeats itself.


Maceration only need be usually 12-24 hours.
Proper maceration alcohol percentage is 85% AbV, minimum.


At the beginning, I would suggest you to forget about grape spirit because you will most likely do some mistake that will spoil it anyway. Begin with quality grain spirit and when you will be happy with your results, start introducing some (more expensive) grappe spirit in your recipe."
Offline tikisteve  
#28 Posted : Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:57:01 AM(UTC)
tikisteve


Rank: Advanced Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 9/27/2007(UTC)
Posts: 168

"A nice long read, thanks for post mtnwalker!
TS"
Offline LWTCS  
#29 Posted : Tuesday, February 02, 2010 12:02:10 PM(UTC)
LWTCS


Rank: Senior Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 12/10/2009(UTC)
Posts: 519

"Sakes alive MW2.

Thats some fancy typing in 16 minutes.

Woulda taken me 4 days to lay that down:)"
Offline mtnwalker2  
#30 Posted : Tuesday, February 02, 2010 12:11:48 PM(UTC)
mtnwalker2


Rank: Senior Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 10/22/2005(UTC)
Posts: 817

"
Originally Posted by: LWTCS Go to Quoted Post
Sakes alive MW2.

Thats some fancy typing in 16 minutes.

Woulda taken me 4 days to lay that down:)


Copy and pasted from Distillers site. Woulda taken me weeks, and with my typing no one could have read it."
Offline Squabble  
#31 Posted : Tuesday, February 02, 2010 1:17:52 PM(UTC)
Squabble


Rank: Junior Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 1/31/2010(UTC)
Posts: 10

"just want to say thanks again to everyone! i didn't realize just how far in the dark i was until reading all this great info.

i'm still curious about the differences in the recipes that have huge differences in the amount of herbs. how can one recipe call for 5 grams of wormwood in 1.5L and another call for 25 grams in 850mL? there must be a HUGE taste and strength difference, not just a ""your tastes/my tastes"" kinda difference.

i'm ready to experiment but if i start from the 5 gram end up having to work up to 25 or 50 grams, it's gonna be awhile before i'm onto something, right?

Originally Posted by: mtnwalker2 Go to Quoted Post
Copy and pasted from Distillers site. Woulda taken me weeks, and with my typing no one could have read it.
"
Offline mtnwalker2  
#32 Posted : Tuesday, February 02, 2010 1:53:25 PM(UTC)
mtnwalker2


Rank: Senior Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 10/22/2005(UTC)
Posts: 817

"Not sure, but seems there was some argument in the posings about this.

However, it may have to do with the difference in Preperation. The original quality method was to distill with the herbs. An easier way is to maceratate the herbs and squeeze out all the juices with a press, then distill. Might take more for this method? I think like grappa, the original had the herbs laid over a layer of twiggs or hay or such to protect from scorching. This would extract more flavor and oils. This was when they used the wine brandies or such. This, to my understanding is supposed to be the premier method?

Just my grasp, someone could correct me on this?"
Offline LWTCS  
#33 Posted : Tuesday, February 02, 2010 3:01:27 PM(UTC)
LWTCS


Rank: Senior Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 12/10/2009(UTC)
Posts: 519

"
Originally Posted by: mtnwalker2 Go to Quoted Post
and with my typing no one could have read it.


Hehe. I'm a huntin pecker tooSad"
Offline tikisteve  
#34 Posted : Tuesday, February 02, 2010 3:32:16 PM(UTC)
tikisteve


Rank: Advanced Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 9/27/2007(UTC)
Posts: 168

"There seems to be many ways for making this product and a lot of different recipes, I think what ever works best for you, you should go with it.
Making absinthe is just like making whiskey or gin or spiced rum etc.there are a lot of different methods used but the basics are the same."
Offline Squabble  
#35 Posted : Friday, February 19, 2010 10:38:02 AM(UTC)
Squabble


Rank: Junior Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 1/31/2010(UTC)
Posts: 10

"well, thanks to everyone's helpful info, i've now successfully distilled a couple decent batches of absinthe!

i'm using devil's spring vodka (160 proof) and soaking my herbs for 24 hours. i've got a decent taste down that i'm trying to perfect and a great, thick louche. distilling is so much easier now and a lot of fun.

the only issue is the overpowering taste of the high proof alcohol. whenever i drink a store bought french or swiss absinthe, the alcohol is still high proof but it seems so much ""lighter"" and easier to drink. there's none of that grain alcohol taste or burn to them. every recipe or brand website says they start with high proof alcohol, but what kind are they referring to? i want a different high proof alcohol to try, but they don't exist.

all the brandies i found to try and start with are 40% abv. all the eau de vie's i found are 40%, one was 45%. there's the 151 rum that i might try but i figure that's pretty far from traditional so i'm not too keen on it.

so, i'm wondering if i could make my own stuff to start out with. what would happen if i ran some wine or brandy through my alembic and bottled what came out for use as my base for absinthe? what happens when you distill wine anyway, brandy? will any of the flavors or characteristics come out of my still or will i just be making the same old alcohol i'm already using?

there's a local winery that's also a distillery, do you think i could talk to the guy about getting some higher proof eau de vie for myself?

what are my options here?"
Offline tikisteve  
#36 Posted : Friday, February 19, 2010 6:01:51 PM(UTC)
tikisteve


Rank: Advanced Member

Reputation:

Groups: Registered
Joined: 9/27/2007(UTC)
Posts: 168

"I've read that with some of those the store bought absinthes, they will add sugar into their product to smooth it out. Check out their label and see if they say whether or not they add sugar, glucose..etc.
Also the high proof alcohol that is traditionally used is distilled from wine, I use my own neutral spirit distilled from sugar water but if I'm going to experiment, I'll just make a run to Mexico and get a few bottles of cheap 95% grain alcohol, which I'll be doing in a few months to test out a recipe for a red absinthe.
Try distilling some wine, maybe a cheap sangria, I'm sure you'll get some flavors which might help with the harshness from the high proof, and ask that distillery, the worse they can do is say no."
Users browsing this topic
Guest
2 Pages<12
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.