Rank: Junior Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 2/16/2011(UTC) Posts: 89
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"Been refluxing a little over a year and I'm happy with my progress....consistently get high yields of 91-92 % neutral spirits. So, I've tried my hand at corn liquor/ pot-distilling twice....so far, I'm not impressed and not sure what to do with it. Recipe was UJSM, 5 gal of wash. Almost identical distillation results in terms of product output %EtOH, so I'm running the still in a consistent manner.
I collect exactly one quart cuts (#1-#7) after tossing the fist 150 ml. results are as follows: #1-66% #2-63% #3-59% #4-54% #5-49% #6-35% #7-22% (about 2/3 quart) #3 had a very nice corn smell and tasted a bit corny and nutty, but that disappeared after a few hours #s 6 & 7 are cloudy and faintly yellow and taste slightly a bit vinegary.
The rest are pleasant tasting, different from neutral spirits, there is flavor but not a lot.
Questions: Is the distillation run correct? Are yields in the ballpark? What about flavor, in terms of I dunno, big or in your face....just seems too subtle. So I'm not sure what the big deal is about corn.
Still is the BH 8 gal premium kettle PS2, on top of a propane turkey cooker.
Any advice is appreciated, thanks"
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Rank: Senior Member Groups: Registered, Moderator Joined: 4/14/2010(UTC) Posts: 1,666
Was thanked: 15 time(s) in 15 post(s)
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"Outland...I think I read that as 7 quarts of collections... if thats right I bet you dont like it!!!!!!! All the things you dont want you have smashed all together in those jars. You said you made cuts....you really need to collect in small jars to make good cuts. Now with a reflux run you might get away with collections like that but pot stillin everything is coming out instead of refluxing back into the boiler. Refluxing means...falling back into the boiler because of temp changes in the vapor as it travels up the column. With your pot still run add mesh to the tower or column to reduce sulphides in your distillate and run fast and then rerun or run slow the first time for a single pass through. Good luck."
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Rank: Junior Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 2/16/2011(UTC) Posts: 89
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"Thanks guys. Heeler, yeah it was almost 7 one quart cuts. Total time for each distillation run was a bit more than 2 hours' coming out as a thin steady stream; whereas my typical reflux run (spirit) is more than 6 hrs and it drips. So, then that was a stripping run? I threw #5-7 from both runs into my feints jug(s). I also have jugs where I combined #1 from both runs, another for #2, and same for #3 and 4......for 4 jugs of the separate numbered fractions.
My alcohol yield might be a bit high because I only have one fermentation bucket, so when a run is done I decant wash into a 6 gallon Sparkletts bottle (water bottle) and add about a quart of 90 percent as a preservative until I have time to run thru the boiler. I do this cuz I had a 5 gal batch of wash turn to vinegar awhile back when I let it sit too long before distilling.
So, when I re-run, put back some copper mesh in column, do it slower, make smaller cuts (say pints?). Should I just throw every thing in the boiler(the separate numbered jugs) or run them separately?
Again thanks for the help guys"
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Rank: Senior Member Groups: Registered, Moderator Joined: 4/14/2010(UTC) Posts: 1,666
Was thanked: 15 time(s) in 15 post(s)
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"You can add all distillate you have to make the next run. Not with more wash just what you stripped. And add enough water to that to make it 35-40%. Pot still or reflux depends on if you want some flavor or not. When you strip it and then cut it with water before you run it again it really cleans it up. Try more water than hooch.........as a ratio -- should come out real clean. and we're still talkin pot stillin cause the more you reflux it the more flavor you take away."
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Rank: Senior Member Groups: Registered, Moderator Joined: 4/14/2010(UTC) Posts: 1,666
Was thanked: 15 time(s) in 15 post(s)
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"Outland, after re-reading post #4 --you said... yeah it was almost 7 one quart cuts????? I'm pretty sure thats not how you make cuts. You should only have 3 CUTS. Foreshots you toss and thats 100-150 mls.The heads cut could be a pint or even two. Let your nose decide. Nowthen your hearts cut could be 3-4 quarts depending on your still and the way you run it. With my setup 2-2.5 quarts is typical. Then of course come the tails and that quantity could also be a quart or two if you continue the run and collect that much its totally up to you. Keep reading and learning - good luck. "
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Rank: Junior Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 2/16/2011(UTC) Posts: 89
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"Not a problem BW :) Heeler, ok I guess I have terminology wrong...there was a post somewhere where someone had a picture of a bunch of numbered jars (pints or less) and I thought I read that each jar was a cut. I used quart jars cuz I intended to combine like numbered portions, and I'm fairly pressed for time (work and wife) so I like to get large yields. I routinely toss the first 150 ml, even when running a sugar wash (actually I save it for parts cleaning and label removal and such) as acetone and methanol from OSH isn't that cheap lol. Anyway....when re-running in Potstill method, should it drip or stream (slow or fast)? I've never had corn likker before and I want to see what its like. Corn wash smells great the first 2 days of fermentation, and one of my ""cuts"" both smelled and tasted good, but that disappeared by the next day on both runs."
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Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 12/6/2011(UTC) Posts: 161
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i used 6 half pints for my first bit to get all the heads and not waste just to be safe after throwing a half pint out for fores and a touch of heads then i get my 2 gal of pint jars then back to the half pints but i do 13 gal 18% washes
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Rank: Junior Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 4/6/2012(UTC) Posts: 133
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I have heard that a good run with a reflux should give you about 10% of your mash run. 10 gal 18% = 1gal. ( 40 qts= 4 qts) This should be good drinking whiskey, between 190 and 120. start to finish. I never expect better than that and normally don't have a problem. My problem is staying sober for 8- hours to make it.
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Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/1/2012(UTC) Posts: 198
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Originally Posted by: Outland Thanks guys. Heeler, yeah it was almost 7 one quart cuts. Total time for each distillation run was a bit more than 2 hours' coming out as a thin steady stream; whereas my typical reflux run (spirit) is more than 6 hrs and it drips. So, then that was a stripping run? I threw #5-7 from both runs into my feints jug(s). I also have jugs where I combined #1 from both runs, another for #2, and same for #3 and 4......for 4 jugs of the separate numbered fractions.
My alcohol yield might be a bit high because I only have one fermentation bucket, so when a run is done I decant wash into a 6 gallon Sparkletts bottle (water bottle) and add about a quart of 90 percent as a preservative until I have time to run thru the boiler. I do this cuz I had a 5 gal batch of wash turn to vinegar awhile back when I let it sit too long before distilling.
So, when I re-run, put back some copper mesh in column, do it slower, make smaller cuts (say pints?). Should I just throw every thing in the boiler(the separate numbered jugs) or run them separately?
Again thanks for the help guys When you are doing all grains you run it through twice. First time collect for a 30-35% aggregate(low wines). Then throw everything you collect back in and run it again(spirit run). If you are trying to make "bourbon" you should adjust your reflux down so it comes off at 80% or lower. Canadian, Scotch and Irish Whiskey rules have no max %.
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Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/1/2012(UTC) Posts: 198
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Its cause the starting abv is so low.
The lowest the mock turbo thumper has ever run hearts at was 75%abv on a run of old homemade wine. Running the all grain the abv starts out at 60%. Its just not high enough.
Now if you have a fancy refluxing still you should be able to adjust it to bring it off in one run. There are bourbon makers that do single run on a column still and yes it becomes a taste debate at some point- single run vs double. But if you are using any form of pot still you are going to end up doing at least a double run.
You should just try it, its really not that bad. You crank up the heat on the stripping run so it goes pretty fast.
The one "manual" i read on making bourbon recommended the stripping run be done pot still style and the spirit run done with two plates. Using the same still for both was optional but judging by the pics i managed to find it is usually done in two separate but connected stills.
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Rank: Junior Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 4/6/2012(UTC) Posts: 133
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Yea. I usually shut it down around 195 / 200 degrees. Haven't had much luck using tails on the reflux. I think you got most of it by then.
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Rank: Junior Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 4/6/2012(UTC) Posts: 133
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Yep, I'm a big believer in "tony" the italian when your doing grain. Never needed it with straight sugar.
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Rank: Junior Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 1/12/2012(UTC) Posts: 34
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All this makes much more sense if you sample some of your previous runs
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Rank: Junior Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 4/6/2012(UTC) Posts: 133
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I always add tomatoe paste to grain mash before fermenting, haven't had to with sugar wash. There ain't no taste from it.
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Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 12/6/2011(UTC) Posts: 161
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plus my friend ferments 5 gal and has a 3 gal pot so redistills from the 1st part in the 2nd part
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Rank: Junior Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 4/6/2012(UTC) Posts: 133
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Rank: Junior Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 4/6/2012(UTC) Posts: 133
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You know what though, It would be handy to have a little one that you could process small quantities of tails or if you wanted to clean up some without all the heat and time using a bigger one? I'd be interested in a two or three gallon one. Maybe I'll make one just for that.
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