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Hi All,
This is my first attemp at a fermentation and I think my first failure. I was atempting what bushy had done in his "yesterday's run" thread anf here is what I've done so far.
1) Clean everything--2 Brewhaus ferment buckets, spoons, air locks, bucket lids, hygrometer.
2) boiled 3 gallons of tap water for each bucket and added to buckets. This sat overnight to cool in the buckets with lids on.
3) the next morning I cleaned and put a 10 inch blue stone aquarium aerator in each bucket and started pumping air thru the water. due to an emergency with one of the maddawgs had to stop so I turned off the air and the the water sat in the buckets for a day.
4) Got the air going in the buckets again and started the next step. Heated up (to 150f) 2.5 gallons of tap water for each bucket. Added 0ne 6oz can of hunts tomatoe paste, 1 tablespoon of lime juice, and 11 pounds of sugar to each bucket.
5) let all that cool to about 105f and added to the aerated 3 gallons in each bucket. Kept the aeration going while it cooled overnight
6) hydrated 1 package oh Brewhaus 8k turbo yeast in 2 cups of 105f tap water for about 10 minutes, cooled to 80f
7) checked starting gravity, potential alcohol, and ph--bucket 1 sg 1.090, pa 11.5, ph 5.0/ bucket 2 sg 1.090, pa, 11.5, ph 5.1
8) removed aerators from buckets and pitched yeast. Gave each a really good stir, covered buckets, and put in the airlocks-- pitch temp for each bucket was 76f and room temp was 75f This was new years day.
Everything was cleaned, rinsed, and with the exception of the fermentation buckets and the stainless pots used to heat water sanitized with starsan. After about 3 hours went to check on progress and there was no activity in either bucket. Figured where the volume was just under 25l that it may take a bit more time. Checked before bed and still nothing. Checked first thing next morning (yesterday) still nothing, checked before bed and still nothing. This morning I added about an 1/8 of a cup of yeast energizer to each bucket and gave a good stir. After a few hours bucket 1 showed a little activity, still no activity in bucket 2. A few hours later bucket 1 still has a little activity and nothing from bucket 2. Just checked a while ago and bucket 1 activity has picked up but still nothing from bucket 2. Just added another 1/8 cup of yeast energizer to bucket 2, gave a good stir and recovered.
So do I have a problem? Is there a problem with my process? Could the tap water cause a problem? Could the turbo yeast cause a problem? were the delays a problem. Are my temps a problem. Am I just being to impaient (I would have thought a turbo would take off)? My next steps are to cook up another 2 pound of sugar for each bucket, wait 2 days and repeat. Should I dump and start over? Any help, advice, would be great.
Thanks, Maddawgs
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Rank: Advanced Member Groups: Registered
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" Originally Posted by: Maddawgs  Hi All,
This is my first attemp at a fermentation and I think my first failure. I was atempting what bushy had done in his ""yesterday's run"" thread anf here is what I've done so far.
1) Clean everything--2 Brewhaus ferment buckets, spoons, air locks, bucket lids, hygrometer.
2) boiled 3 gallons of tap water for each bucket and added to buckets. This sat overnight to cool in the buckets with lids on.
3) the next morning I cleaned and put a 10 inch blue stone aquarium aerator in each bucket and started pumping air thru the water. due to an emergency with one of the maddawgs had to stop so I turned off the air and the the water sat in the buckets for a day.
4) Got the air going in the buckets again and started the next step. Heated up (to 150f) 2.5 gallons of tap water for each bucket. Added 0ne 6oz can of hunts tomatoe paste, 1 tablespoon of lime juice, and 11 pounds of sugar to each bucket.
5) let all that cool to about 105f and added to the aerated 3 gallons in each bucket. Kept the aeration going while it cooled overnight
6) hydrated 1 package oh Brewhaus 8k turbo yeast in 2 cups of 105f tap water for about 10 minutes, cooled to 80f
7) checked starting gravity, potential alcohol, and ph--bucket 1 sg 1.090, pa 11.5, ph 5.0/ bucket 2 sg 1.090, pa, 11.5, ph 5.1
8) removed aerators from buckets and pitched yeast. Gave each a really good stir, covered buckets, and put in the airlocks-- pitch temp for each bucket was 76f and room temp was 75f This was new years day.
Everything was cleaned, rinsed, and with the exception of the fermentation buckets and the stainless pots used to heat water sanitized with starsan. After about 3 hours went to check on progress and there was no activity in either bucket. Figured where the volume was just under 25l that it may take a bit more time. Checked before bed and still nothing. Checked first thing next morning (yesterday) still nothing, checked before bed and still nothing. This morning I added about an 1/8 of a cup of yeast energizer to each bucket and gave a good stir. After a few hours bucket 1 showed a little activity, still no activity in bucket 2. A few hours later bucket 1 still has a little activity and nothing from bucket 2. Just checked a while ago and bucket 1 activity has picked up but still nothing from bucket 2. Just added another 1/8 cup of yeast energizer to bucket 2, gave a good stir and recovered.
So do I have a problem? Is there a problem with my process? Could the tap water cause a problem? Could the turbo yeast cause a problem? were the delays a problem. Are my temps a problem. Am I just being to impaient (I would have thought a turbo would take off)? My next steps are to cook up another 2 pound of sugar for each bucket, wait 2 days and repeat. Should I dump and start over? Any help, advice, would be great.
Thanks, Maddawgs Maddawgs, My thought is don't dump it. I think it can be saved. Everything is clean and sterile. It could be the yeast. I'm curious as to what others say."
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Rank: Senior Member Groups: Registered, Moderator
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"First things first....what temp did the yeast pack advise you use when adding it to re-hydrate??? I've never heard of anybody re-hydrateing a turbo, I'm not saying you cant or shouldn't but it just dont need it.
Why 11 lbs of sugar all at once..1190 is kinda on the higher side, not unreasonable but high??
Did you follow a recipe thats tried and true...I see sugar and paste and lime but no epsom salt.... again I'm not saying you did anything wrong ---yet.
Remember I did a little expirement with pitching temps and 98 was great and 78 was really low but doable. What does the package advise...
I'll say you went the extra mile in preperation and I dont think your wash is dead so dont throw it out yet, I'm still not sure why it didn't take off...still thinkiing"
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Rank: Senior Member Groups: Registered, Moderator
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" Originally Posted by: Maddawgs Hi All,
This is my first attemp at a fermentation and I think my first failure. I was atempting what bushy had done in his ""yesterday's run"" thread anf here is what I've done so far.
1) Clean everything--2 Brewhaus ferment buckets, spoons, air locks, bucket lids, hygrometer.
2) boiled 3 gallons of tap water for each bucket and added to buckets. This sat overnight to cool in the buckets with lids on.
3) the next morning I cleaned and put a 10 inch blue stone aquarium aerator in each bucket and started pumping air thru the water. due to an emergency with one of the maddawgs had to stop so I turned off the air and the the water sat in the buckets for a day.
4) Got the air going in the buckets again and started the next step. Heated up (to 150f) 2.5 gallons of tap water for each bucket. Added 0ne 6oz can of hunts tomatoe paste, 1 tablespoon of lime juice, and 11 pounds of sugar to each bucket.
5) let all that cool to about 105f and added to the aerated 3 gallons in each bucket. Kept the aeration going while it cooled overnight
6) hydrated 1 package oh Brewhaus 8k turbo yeast in 2 cups of 105f tap water for about 10 minutes, cooled to 80f
7) checked starting gravity, potential alcohol, and ph--bucket 1 sg 1.090, pa 11.5, ph 5.0/ bucket 2 sg 1.090, pa, 11.5, ph 5.1
8) removed aerators from buckets and pitched yeast. Gave each a really good stir, covered buckets, and put in the airlocks-- pitch temp for each bucket was 76f and room temp was 75f This was new years day.
Everything was cleaned, rinsed, and with the exception of the fermentation buckets and the stainless pots used to heat water sanitized with starsan. After about 3 hours went to check on progress and there was no activity in either bucket. Figured where the volume was just under 25l that it may take a bit more time. Checked before bed and still nothing. Checked first thing next morning (yesterday) still nothing, checked before bed and still nothing. This morning I added about an 1/8 of a cup of yeast energizer to each bucket and gave a good stir. After a few hours bucket 1 showed a little activity, still no activity in bucket 2. A few hours later bucket 1 still has a little activity and nothing from bucket 2. Just checked a while ago and bucket 1 activity has picked up but still nothing from bucket 2. Just added another 1/8 cup of yeast energizer to bucket 2, gave a good stir and recovered.
So do I have a problem? Is there a problem with my process? Could the tap water cause a problem? Could the turbo yeast cause a problem? were the delays a problem. Are my temps a problem. Am I just being to impaient (I would have thought a turbo would take off)? My next steps are to cook up another 2 pound of sugar for each bucket, wait 2 days and repeat. Should I dump and start over? Any help, advice, would be great.
Thanks, Maddawgs 1) no prob 2) no prob 3) no prob 4) no real prob - I think the gravity is a little hogh though 5) I dont like all that waiting around - too much time for shit to happen, but I see you had them covered 6) Did it grow in size and look like it was alive ( re-hydrated) 7) no prob 8) I dont think 76 caused a issue but its kinda on the cool side for starting out, but no prob I'll say it SHOULD be working but dont know why yet, you said -- a little activity -- I bet in a while that turbo is gonna be gettin with it."
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Rank: Senior Member Groups: Registered, Moderator
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Maddawgs, can you heat those fermenters up to about 80-85F?? A little warmth might kick em in drive.
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"Hi md, I doubt there's anything wrong with your wash. But ... Quote:6) hydrated 1 package oh Brewhaus 8k turbo yeast in 2 cups of [COLOR=""#FF0000""]105f tap water[/COLOR] for about 10 minutes, cooled to 80f ... it's possible that this is the culprit. The instructions I found online state: ""Make sure the temperature is below 25°C (86°F) then add the sachet of yeast."" I also found these: ""The 8kg Turbo Yeast is not considered extremely temperature tolerant, therefore it is best to keep the ambient temperature below 80 degrees."" ""For maximum speed - Ferment for 5 days at between 24-27°C (75-80°F). Yeast will die above 27°C (80°F) air temperature...."" I'm not sure how to interpret that last one ... but it seems like this yeast is finicky about the temps. So your yeast (or much of it) could have been compromised. Don't put in any more additives ... too much of a good thing can make matters worse. Maybe try a fresh starter but drop the starter temps. Otherwise, your process looks great. Don't throw the wash overboard yet. --JB"
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Rank: Senior Member Groups: Registered, Moderator
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" Originally Posted by: John Barleycorn Hi md, I doubt there's anything wrong with your wash. But ... ... it's possible that this is the culprit. The instructions I found online state: ""Make sure the temperature is below 25°C (86°F) then add the sachet of yeast."" I also found these: ""The 8kg Turbo Yeast is not considered extremely temperature tolerant, therefore it is best to keep the ambient temperature below 80 degrees."" ""For maximum speed - Ferment for 5 days at between 24-27°C (75-80°F). Yeast will die above 27°C (80°F) air temperature...."" I'm not sure how to interpret that last one ... but it seems like this yeast is finicky about the temps. So your yeast (or much of it) could have been compromised. Don't put in any more additives ... too much of a good thing can make matters worse. Maybe try a fresh starter but drop the starter temps. Otherwise, your process looks great. Don't throw the wash overboard yet. --JB Ditto on all that....I have to think after all that TLC you applied, the re-hydration of the turbo is the culprit. Open your mind and get in the jug with that yeast while its rehydrating...I bet all the enzymes and nut's made the yeast eat itself or something there about, the cell walls are softer and stretching to grow and then all of a sudden bam, all that strong stuff in such a little volume of juice, well my mind says ...ouch. If you have another pack pour it right on top and call it good..the wash should be fine or even better actually. The new addition of yeast will also utilize the extra goodies too, but then again if you go with another trubo it might be an overload of nut's and enzymes. Dont toss the wash yet."
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Rank: Senior Member Groups: Registered
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Hi all,
Thanks for the help, I really appreciate all of it. Ok first to answer some of your questions. I was following Bushy's process in his "yesterday's run" thread. I was doing this for a few reasons. It was a sugar wash, used a turbo, and worked. Part of that was hydrating the turbo. I don't have the Brewhaus 8k turbo package in front of me but I don't remember anything about rehydrating on the package (just following the recipe). For sugar recipe called for 11 pounds wait 3 days, 2 pounds, wait 2 days, and another 2 pounds- again following the recipe. As for temps I'm trying to slow the time down to avoid potential nasties like off flavors, extra tails and others that are caused by higher temp fast ferments associated with turbos. The addition of the yeast energizer was my last try before giving up. I really did not want to add it do to a fear of ruining the wash and winding up with a bad tasting blue product.
So after checking first thing this morning this is where things are now. Bucket 1 is cranking along very nicely with a few bubbles a minute and a temp of 68f. Bucket 2 is alive and has bubbles every few minutes (about the same stage as bucket 1 was last night), bucket temp is 68f. Room temp is 73f--pretty good since out side temp is 14f.
Ok here are a few more questions. Were my ferments just stuck and the yeast energizer got them going? Are they actually not going and current activity is just the yeast energizer. I do have 2 more packs of Brewhaus 8k turbo yeast (Rick includes 2 with each kit--Thanks Rick), would adding them (not rehydrated) be a good or bad idea? Again thank you for all of your help and I look forward to your responses.
Maddawgs
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Rank: Senior Member Groups: Registered, Moderator
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"First............14F OhhhhhMyyyyyyyGooooood....
Now, if its going like you say well letter go, there must be some live yeast in there..and I would say the next turbo addition would prolly have an overabundence of nut's but we were trying to save the whole lot so simce its going dont add anymore.
When Bushy comes on lets get his opinion of how you followed his procedure and try to figger out what happened. Since its his he'll prolly be able to pick out the issue.
Your not defeated yet pard...."
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Rank: Senior Member Groups: Registered
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Originally Posted by: heeler First............14F OhhhhhMyyyyyyyGooooood....
Now, if its going like you say well letter go, there must be some live yeast in there..and I would say the next turbo addition would prolly have an overabundence of nut's but we were trying to save the whole lot so simce its going dont add anymore.
When Bushy comes on lets get his opinion of how you followed his procedure and try to figger out what happened. Since its his he'll prolly be able to pick out the issue.
Your not defeated yet pard.... Hi heeler, Over the last few days 14f is a heatwave, it was 6f yesterday and 4f the day before. I was hoping to hear from bushy but he has not been on the forum for a few days. So far the only variations from his recipe have been instead of "juice of one lime" I used one tablespoon of lime luice, my temps are probably lower. and I had to add the yeast energizer. For me even if it is a failure it is still a learning experience (but I'm glad I got some activity going). If things keep going I'll be adding 2 pounds of sugar to the wash tomorrow night. I have some Lavlin EC1118 packets in the fridge. Would it be a good idea to hydrate and grow some and pitch it when I add the next sugar? Thanks, Maddawgs
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Rank: Senior Member Groups: Registered
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Had anoher question. Where I sanitized just about everything with Starsan and it is a no rinse sanitizer (I did not rinse it off) could that have killed off some of the yeast?
Thanks, Maddawgs
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Rank: Senior Member Groups: Registered, Moderator
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"too many folks in beer making also use starsan-- i dont believe it kills yeast. i still dont like pitching at higher temperatures though -- i like about 75 F
we live in the year 2013. Why are you guy so hung up on using popcorn type additives like tomatoe paste. then do you add lemon juice without checking the ph.
Low temperature merely slows or stops fermentation. I use a brewbelt and a heating pad that are both controlled by a temp probe in the fermenter. I happen to use 65 deg F. to ferment because i believe it lowers the possibility of off flavors. And risking the WRATH of ADMIN, i hate turbo yeast and anything that strand sells. WHY
READ HIS BOOK AND SEE IT IS JUST A COMMERCIAL FOR HIS PRODUCTS. Off to the shrink again. lol"
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"The StarSan should be just fine. I use it all the time and I never had a problem. Scotty, I checked the pH of my water ... even did the whole lab analysis thing since it's from a well. The lab says it's pH 7.6 ... I've measured it a bit higher from time to time. In any case, the tomato paste and lemon juice bring that down. The Mg concentration is so low that I doubt it contributes much. The wash pH (just prior to pitching) using my water is about 4.6 - 4.8 ... so that's right about where I want it. The lemon juice (potentially) serves a second purpose though: it helps invert the sugar (acid hydrolysis). That's why I put the lemon juice in with the water I heat for dissolving the sugar. I don't bring it to a full boil but I do let it sit for about 15 minutes while I get my tomato soup ready. So based on everything I've read, I should be getting at least some inversion ... but I have absolutely no idea to what extent ... and it's just as easy to drop the lemon juice in the hot water pot as it is to drop it in the bucket ... so why not? ... it's a freebee whether it works or not. As for popcorn style additives ... I have citric acid but I haven't used it when preparing my BW washes. I have tried some light DAP additions ... but I didn't notice any differences. I suppose I just like the raw materials ... and the smell ... I always have this strange craving for a Bloody Mary once the wash is ready and in the bucket.!  Best Regards, --JB"
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Pitch some bakers or EC1118 on that - bet it takes off. Do not add any more sugar or it'll never start, 1.090 is the absolute top end, I usually target 1.075. 95* is the upper limit for rehydration & personally I'm not a fan of rehydration, about all it does is get the batch going a little quicker. None of my wine yeast gets rehydrated (EC1118) and it has never failed to take off, and I make a lot of wine.
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Rank: Senior Member Groups: Registered
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Hi Maddawgs, Sorry about the lag in replying I've been really busy this last month.
Everything you did sounds fine in your procedures except the temp that you hydrated your yeast at, that was higher than I would have done.
I rehydrate at between 85 and 90 degrees. Also rehydrating turbo is not necessary but it is fun to watch it take off and grow. Unlike your regular yeast you can't let it sit for hours rehydrating because of the nuts it will burn itself out pretty quick, about 15 minutes at most.
The addition of more nuts should only be done when adding more sugar, and sparingly then. Otherwise your likely to get off flavors
Sounds like some of the yeast made it through as your getting fermentation now so let it work. try and keep your temp between 75 and 80 degrees for a few days, turbo's like a little warmer environment than regular yeast, and then add your next batch of sugar.
BTW for a sugar wash, when dissolving the sugar you only need to bring the water to 180 degrees to pasturize it, boiling is not needed.
Hope things go well for you.
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Sorry, but I am out of town and so far behind that I did not see this earlier. Quote:6) hydrated 1 package oh Brewhaus 8k turbo yeast in 2 cups of 105f tap water for about 10 minutes, cooled to 80f You CANNOT rehydrate turbo yeast- it WILL kill it. Some of the nutrients that yeast needs are toxic to it in high concentrations, so rehydrating a turbo yeast will kill the yeast virtually instantly.
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 Rank: Newbie Groups: Registered
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Hi Maddawgs, when your turbo is gone try, Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash, it's so easy. Good luck.
Happy New Year
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Rank: Senior Member Groups: Registered, Moderator
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" Originally Posted by: Admin Sorry, but I am out of town and so far behind that I did not see this earlier.
You CANNOT rehydrate turbo yeast- it WILL kill it. Some of the nutrients that yeast needs are toxic to it in high concentrations, so rehydrating a turbo yeast will kill the yeast virtually instantly. Well he said he had some action in the fermenters, maybe some survived. MD, this is why I asked about following Bushy's recipe --- so Bushy, do you re-hydrate turbo's when you use them???"
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Rank: Senior Member Groups: Registered
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Originally Posted by: Admin Sorry, but I am out of town and so far behind that I did not see this earlier.
You CANNOT rehydrate turbo yeast- it WILL kill it. Some of the nutrients that yeast needs are toxic to it in high concentrations, so rehydrating a turbo yeast will kill the yeast virtually instantly. Hi Rick, Thanks, next batch no rehydrating the turbo. I would have to say that you make a pretty hearty turbo. Both buckets have pretty good activity going now with the airlocks bubbling every 30 or 40 seconds so some must have survived. Thanks, Maddawgs
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Rank: Senior Member Groups: Registered
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Hi Heeler, I have rehydrated them for short periods of time and have just pitched them also. Seems like just pitching them makes them start more vigorously but have not had any take this long to start working.
Thanks for the input Rick. I will follow your lead with the tubo from now on.
Also edited that recipe for future reference.
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