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Offline Tracyman0111  
#1 Posted : Friday, January 18, 2013 5:59:21 AM(UTC)
Tracyman0111


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"Just wanted to drop a line and share, not my first, but I do believe my most successful run thus far, out of the 8 or 9 small runs Ive done so far.

I run a 7 gallon Brewhaus Essential Extractor II, which can be run as pot or reflux depending on how you run your cooling water. Ive only been running small batches thus far, trying to fine tune things. My most recent was 5lbs sugar, 1 can of tomato paste, approx 4 tbsp of standard distillers yeast, and enough water to fill a 4 gallon bucket, all run on a propane burner.

One thing Ive always been hung up on since getting into this hobby was TEMPERATURE. Ive always spent the majority of my run times dic**** around with the burner, trying to maintain 171-175, and only getting mediocre results, and nasty tasting and smelling stuff. Some guys tell me dont even watch it or worry about, some guys tell me you HAVE to keep it below 212. Well, Ive broken the thermometer in top of my column, new one hasnt arrived yet, but I decided to run anyway because my mash was done, even with that 'running blind' feeling.

Ran max flame on burner, when I started to see vapor in the tube, I backed the flame down a tad, kicked the pump on, and gradually opened it to full reflux over a 2-3 minute period. Took probably 10 more minutes to see liquid distillate. I started making 1/3 qt separations, for testings sake. First cut I could definitely tell was heads from the burn in my nose lol. I ended up with about 4 cuts after the heads...First about 90 proof, second about 130 and even less bubbles on the shake test (Im guessing the best part of the batch), the third back down around 75 proof, and the fourth started coming out dark and cloudy, Im guessing signaling the end of the run.

Im assuming that 1/3 qt of good pure stuff is probably all thats expected from 3 1/2 gallon wash (about 1/2 gallon was left in bucket soaked with the sediments), but like I said, Im running small batches for experimenting purposes. I cut the 130 proof down to around 90 with some cold bottled water, and It didnT taste bad at all!! Although it had a tad bit of a bite compared to the real good stuff Ive gotten from seasoned guys, it Was the smoothest Ive made yet, although Im sure it could be better with more experience.

Feel free to drop any thoughts or comments!!!

Travis"
Offline John Barleycorn  
#2 Posted : Friday, January 18, 2013 8:10:43 AM(UTC)
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"Tracyman,

It's good to hear that you're getting familiar with your rig and getting better results!

Quote:
One thing Ive always been hung up on since getting into this hobby was TEMPERATURE <<SNIP>> Some guys tell me dont even watch it or worry about <<SNIP>> I decided to run anyway because my mash was done, even with that 'running blind' feeling.

I fall into that school of thought -- I don't pay any attention to the thermometer. The thermometer is just there to fill the hole in the bung. The collection rate can tell you everything you need to know, even when doing a reflux run. So you can shake off that 'running blind' feeling.:)

While you're waiting for your new bung hole plug to arrive you have a great opportunity to experiment. If you don't like the results you can always dillute and throw everything back into the boiler and give it another go. I'm assuming that you're using your column (fully packed). Try this while you're waiting:

Bring your wash to a boil with no water to your column condenser and leave your product condenser water flowing through the entire run. After the fores come across, reduce your power until you get a steady output of maybe one or two drops each second. Then cut in your cooling water to the column condenser and let it sit for about an hour (full reflux -- no output). The basic idea is to get some separation, hopefully get the column equalized. If you push the column too hard (too much power) you won't get any separation -- you may believe that's what's happening -- but it won't really happen. Pumping too much power just pushes everything further up the column ... the different components will be smeared at the top.

After an hour, all things going well you should have some separation ... like a jar of oil and vinegar that has been sitting undisturbed. And just like the jar, if you want to skim things off the top, you'll want to do it slowly so things don't get all mixed up again. So slowly back off the cooling water to your column condenser until you get one or two drops a second. The only goal here is to skim the volatiles off the top. Collect small samples, maybe 250 mL or so in each jar. As you collect, use your nose. You'll notice when the smell of paint thinner changes to fruity and then eventually fades to something closer to vodka.

When you detect that clean smell you can increase your collection rate by reducing the cooling water to your column condenser ... the output looks like a string of small beads. You may have to bump up your power. If you do increase your power you might want to go to full reflux again for about 15 minutes or so. Then just continue collecting.

When you're done, cover your collection jars with a piece of paper towel or coffee filter, etc. and let them sit for two days before you sample. When you sample the jars start in the middle and work your way out towards both ends. Take a teaspoon of distillate and mix it with two teaspoons of clean water. Dilluting below what you would drink it at will make it much easier to detect various flavors and aromas ... some you might find pleasant, others will be offensive. Too much alcohol just hides the flavors and aromas.

Anyway, that's how I do things ... and there's no mention of any temperatures. You can get very good results just managing your power and your collection rate while you use your nose. Please remember that this is just my way, not the way. Other folks whom I truly respect do things differently and get good results as well. But since you don't have a thermometer, you might want to give this a try to see if the shoe fits.:)

Regards,
--JB"
Offline Tracyman0111  
#3 Posted : Friday, January 18, 2013 8:47:15 AM(UTC)
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Thanks John, that definitely gives me some to expand on!! So you thought the jist of what I did and how I did it, although basic, is a good start?
Offline John Barleycorn  
#4 Posted : Friday, January 18, 2013 9:25:19 AM(UTC)
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"Tracyman,

The only bad start is when you you're not safe. Everything else, good, bad, clever, dumb, whatever can be chalked up to experience. I've had as much failure as I've had success in this hobby. Maybe it's because I just like to tinker with things. And BTW I'm a big fan of ""basic!"" And I think doing a bunch of small runs is a great approach ... it's a great way to get comfortable with the rig ... kick the tires and do some test drives.

Regardless, I think you will have no trouble getting good results without your thermometer.

Regards,
--JB"
Offline chooch  
#5 Posted : Friday, January 25, 2013 6:11:01 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: John Barleycorn Go to Quoted Post
Tracyman,

The only bad start is when you you're not safe. Everything else, good, bad, clever, dumb, whatever can be chalked up to experience. I've had as much failure as I've had success in this hobby. Maybe it's because I just like to tinker with things. And BTW I'm a big fan of "basic!" And I think doing a bunch of small runs is a great approach ... it's a great way to get comfortable with the rig ... kick the tires and do some test drives.

Regardless, I think you will have no trouble getting good results without your thermometer.

Regards,
--JB


+1
I am still trying to figure it out but have had the same experince of a "good run" and that pumps me up so much that I look forward to the next run! Good job man...keep us posted
Offline Maddawgs  
#6 Posted : Saturday, January 26, 2013 12:46:28 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: John Barleycorn Go to Quoted Post
Tracyman,

It's good to hear that you're getting familiar with your rig and getting better results!


I fall into that school of thought -- I don't pay any attention to the thermometer. The thermometer is just there to fill the hole in the bung. The collection rate can tell you everything you need to know, even when doing a reflux run. So you can shake off that 'running blind' feeling.:)

While you're waiting for your new bung hole plug to arrive you have a great opportunity to experiment. If you don't like the results you can always dillute and throw everything back into the boiler and give it another go. I'm assuming that you're using your column (fully packed). Try this while you're waiting:

Bring your wash to a boil with no water to your column condenser and leave your product condenser water flowing through the entire run. After the fores come across, reduce your power until you get a steady output of maybe one or two drops each second. Then cut in your cooling water to the column condenser and let it sit for about an hour (full reflux -- no output). The basic idea is to get some separation, hopefully get the column equalized. If you push the column too hard (too much power) you won't get any separation -- you may believe that's what's happening -- but it won't really happen. Pumping too much power just pushes everything further up the column ... the different components will be smeared at the top.

After an hour, all things going well you should have some separation ... like a jar of oil and vinegar that has been sitting undisturbed. And just like the jar, if you want to skim things off the top, you'll want to do it slowly so things don't get all mixed up again. So slowly back off the cooling water to your column condenser until you get one or two drops a second. The only goal here is to skim the volatiles off the top. Collect small samples, maybe 250 mL or so in each jar. As you collect, use your nose. You'll notice when the smell of paint thinner changes to fruity and then eventually fades to something closer to vodka.

When you detect that clean smell you can increase your collection rate by reducing the cooling water to your column condenser ... the output looks like a string of small beads. You may have to bump up your power. If you do increase your power you might want to go to full reflux again for about 15 minutes or so. Then just continue collecting.

When you're done, cover your collection jars with a piece of paper towel or coffee filter, etc. and let them sit for two days before you sample. When you sample the jars start in the middle and work your way out towards both ends. Take a teaspoon of distillate and mix it with two teaspoons of clean water. Dilluting below what you would drink it at will make it much easier to detect various flavors and aromas ... some you might find pleasant, others will be offensive. Too much alcohol just hides the flavors and aromas.

Anyway, that's how I do things ... and there's no mention of any temperatures. You can get very good results just managing your power and your collection rate while you use your nose. Please remember that this is just my way, not the way. Other folks whom I truly respect do things differently and get good results as well. But since you don't have a thermometer, you might want to give this a try to see if the shoe fits.:)

Regards,
--JB

Hi JB,
Thanks for this great info,this is the info I was looking for in my guru thread. I'll be using this process on my run this weekend.
Maddawgs
Offline captinjack  
#7 Posted : Saturday, January 26, 2013 7:10:24 AM(UTC)
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Hey JB,
Yes thats X2 what Maddawgs said I will be using this and your " Lessons Learned " thread as a guide when I do my first run... Thanks for the great info...
Captinjack
Offline John Barleycorn  
#8 Posted : Sunday, January 27, 2013 7:11:58 AM(UTC)
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"Maddawgs,

Quote:
I'll be using this process on my run this weekend.

Just a note ... I have never done a reflux run with a wash straight from the fermenting bucket ... it has always been with low wines in the 30% - 40% abv range.

I have the 8 gallon kettle and 1500w hotplate. HIgh volume at low abv means more power ... so I end up in (or near the edge) of that RSC dead zone. The lower volume and higher abv brings the power requirements down and gets me out of the dead zone ... so I can actually get good control over my power.

--JB"
Offline Maddawgs  
#9 Posted : Sunday, January 27, 2013 8:52:15 AM(UTC)
Maddawgs


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Originally Posted by: John Barleycorn Go to Quoted Post
Maddawgs,


Just a note ... I have never done a reflux run with a wash straight from the fermenting bucket ... it has always been with low wines in the 30% - 40% abv range.

I have the 8 gallon kettle and 1500w hotplate. HIgh volume at low abv means more power ... so I end up in (or near the edge) of that RSC dead zone. The lower volume and higher abv brings the power requirements down and gets me out of the dead zone ... so I can actually get good control over my power.

--JB

Hi JB,
I followed your process layed out in this thread and so far it is working great. Rsc on var is at the divider between med and high. Making 10oz cuts and currently into the second one.
Thanks, Maddawgs
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