how do you sanitize and aerate???

Noone has any input?

John--

Im not sure what you mean by a starter. My yeast comes in a 4oz jar, made by a company called EC Home Beer & Wine Making. Its labeled as food grade distillers yeast. Im sure there is some better more expensive stuff, but during my learning phase, Im trying not to spend a WHOLE bunch of money Plus, Ive had high alcohol yields with it before.

And no, I didnt use nutrients this time. In the past, with simple sugar washes, Ive added tomato paste, but I didnt want to do that this time on an apple mash that I plan to slow run in pot mode. There is a little froth on the top, and I can gently blow some of it aside and I can see the yeast churning around, so theres SOMETHING going on down there.....

You could also check out our videos section under "yeast starter"
Maddawgs

When you say re pitch the yeast, should I use the original amount again? I used 4 level tbsp for that 5 gallon wash, so split to 2 buckets and drop 2 more tbsp in each one? That would be a total of 8 tbsp for the entire batch, is that too much?

"Tracyman,

You might want to let it sit for another day or two ... just to make sure. Also check for air leaks in your fermenting bucket. When things slow down you might only get one burp through your airlock every 5 - 10 seconds, but it might still be going ... just very slowly. If there are any air leaks in your seal, you may never see any activity in your airlock at all when things slow down.

Do you have a website where your brand of yeast is mentioned. I couldn't find it doing a simple google search. Going from 1.115 to 1.030 puts the alcohol content somewhere around 11% - 12%. That's the ethanol tolerance limit for some yeast. But I would expect a distiller's yeast to be able to handle a little more than that ... it's just something to check. If it's at the limit, you might not be able to go any lower.

In any case, I think it would be fine to run ... you'll just end up with a lower yield.

Regards,
--JB"

Tracyman,

First, congratulations!

There are a few things you can try if you want to make a good apple brandy.

The first is to do some research on an appropriate yeast to use. In my opinion this is one area that gets overlooked far too often in our ranks. Many of us seem very content to use products originally designed to make fuel ethanol because it's exciting to watch and produces high ethanol content in our washes. There's little concern about the flavor/aroma profiles produced by the yeast. Yet many of the wine folks I've chatted with are almost fanatical about their yeast selections. They've told me about matching very specific yeasts with specific grape varieties for very specific wine styles. Now some folks will say that since we're distilling it doesn't matter -- all those flavors and aromas don't come across. But I've also read several papers about how various commercial distilleries analyze their process to (attempt to) maintain very tight control over the congener profiles of their spirits since many of those congeners are responsible for the specific "identity" (aroma, flavor, etc) of their products. Those congeners (esters & fusel alcohols) do come across. We don't have the resources to do what they do, but that doesn't mean we can't benefit from careful yeast selection.

Another thing is get more apple flavor in your wash and get rid of the sugar. I've measured the gravity of several off-the-shelf apple juice products and they're all right around 1.050 (around 6.5% PA). So some frozen concentrated apple juice might be useful provided you can find one without preservatives -- I never looked into that. Just do your best to keep the gravity within the specs of the yeast you're using.

You can also start looking into is oaking. I'm real green on this ... but I've been doing a lot of research lately, so maybe someone with good experience can chime in. Regardless, much of what I've read claims that various oaking techniques can really enhance and/or modify flavor perception as well as add "character" ... and give the spirit that "final touch." My local HomeDepot just received a new shipment of barrel planters so I'm going to pick one up as soon as I can scrape up the $30. The planters are used whiskey barrels (white oak) and there are plenty of posts on various forums that describe how to prepare and toast the staves. Just something you might want to look into.

Just a final thought: I don't think slow and low is responsible for zero flavor -- at least not when your abv is in the 35% - 60% range. From what I've read, a typical oaking abv is 62.5%. The maximum abv for bourbon is 80% (160 proof). And amazingly, the maximum for a brandy is 95%. Now those are the maximums, but you're already below a typical oaking concentration. I guess what I'm saying is that if you start with more apple flavor, use a good yeast for your application and do some oak aging, I believe your slow an low technique will be just fine. If you run it too hard you'll just end up smearing everything ... and that will definitely mask the subtle flavors you're looking for.

Anyway, it sounds like you found some success and know what you're looking for. So now comes the fine tuning ... that's where we have the advantage over the commercial guys: We're not in it to make profit, we're in it to make perfect.

Best Regards,
--JB

Hi JB, good call on the yeast. I learned through beer makeing about the different flavors obtained by useing different yeasts.

I'm in the experimental phase with "oaking". So far I've found that rum and fruit brandies have benifited from useing staves cut up from used red wine barrels. It did'nt seem to make much difference whether it was white or french oak. I have'nt been able to get a piece of russian oak yet but sure would like to try it. I cut the staves into 1" wide strips and take off a little more than 1/2 of the inside soak line, then toast to a medium toast all the way around the piece.

For whiskeys I have a friend that gets me broken unused white oak staves from a cooperage that I cut up into strips and toast. They do seem to improve in flavor after a few useses.

Thanks to all for the replies!!

JB, you mention less sugar and possibly using frozen concentrate; is the concentrate to acheive the less sugar aspect of it? If so, would it work out the same with just using jug juice and forgoing the addition of granulated sugar? Would the natural sugars of the jug juice be enough? Like I said, it was much smoother, obviously lower proofed, and more quantity than running in reflux, I had kinda the same odor and taste (before addition of flavor).

As far as the oak, I know there's a lot of reading on here, but the general jist is to soak a piece of this wood in the product for X amount of days, right?

Travis

Yes, that's what I was thinking ... lose the sucrose and use more AJ. I have an aversion to washes above 1.080 ... but that's just me ... so I figured you can probably get where you want without the sucrose. So, if your juice is around 1.050 like the ones I measured you could use the concentrate to bring up the gravity a bit. Or just use enough concentrate with water. I'm concerned about preservatives though ... I have no idea what's in concentrates ... the next time I'm in the store I'll have to look at the concentrates to see what's in them.


Yes. You can certainly ferment and distill something that starts at 1.050 but the yield may be low if your rig can't handle a high enough volume. If I'm not mistaken, I think maudib has done some low gravity washes so he'd be able to tell you what to expect.


Correct. There are several threads on the various forums. But basically, they go something like: prepare some oak (from an old barrel or something), toast it at a particular temperature for some amount of time, then drop it into your hooch. There are different toasting temps/times to get certain flavors profiles. The amount of time for aging seems debatable enough ... seems like there are too many factors to come up with any blanket statements ... probably just need to do it with what you have and see what you like.