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Offline DraughtDoctor  
#1 Posted : Friday, August 23, 2013 9:18:03 AM(UTC)
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"Ok, let me preface this by saying i am BRAND NEW to distilling. i understand the mechanisms of it all, but am getting confused about the foreshots, heads, hearts, & tails.

I've been planning to do a very simple corn sugar wash. My recipe is pretty much:

30lbs Dextrose Corn Sugar
10 gallons water
2 package Alcotec 48 hour turbo pure.
Split between 2 fermenters

So here is where i am getting confused. I am planning to run this through a PSII reflux column attached to a 15.5 Gallon keg packed with copper mesh.

The foreshots, from what i understand, will be about the first 100ml-150ml that comes out. I was originally under the impression that this was the only dangerous part, and would be discarded no matter what.

In doing further research, i have seen a lot of people talking about getting rid of some of the heads too? as well as getting rid of the tails? But then some folks say keep the heads and add it back in later, and the same with the tails? and then some folks say only some of each?

I realize that there are probably many possible answers to this - but does anyone have reasonably sound experience with a PSII and could give me some advice?

Thanks in advance for your patience with my total ignorance haha"
Offline RCRed  
#2 Posted : Friday, August 23, 2013 9:27:55 AM(UTC)
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Lots of places to start here BigGrin

1 - May I suggest a smaller first attempt - like a 5 gal or even a 3 ? It's easier on ya. My first few were too large and I smeared them badly, total losses. Smaller at first is better , less time to do, easier to learn to use heat increments, and not a huge cost if things go badly..
2 - You are correct about the foreshots - althou I'd probably go to 250ml to be safe on a batch that large - but you can tell - it's greasy and stanks of nail polish remover - Once you are there it's nose and feel will alert you

May I suggest a thread on novice guide to cuts that I found extremely helpful when I got started?

http://homedistiller.org...pic.php?f=15&t=11640

And, if you've got time, do read the other stuff in the new distiller lounge over there. A ton of good experience awaits BigGrin

And in the end, you'll see it's about nose and cuts vary batch to batch.. Jus takes experience

About holding or folding the tails, some do, some dont - It's a matter of preference or recipe. I add my tails to the next generation of same for sweet feed, but corn I save until I have a gallon of tails (aka low wines) to rerun along with a gallon and half of distilled water.

Or (and I have not had the time to do this) - reflux the tails and get as much good neutral out and charcoal filter to make flavored. It's like an artists palatte, or chef's taste - it's how you will like it BigGrin

I should also tell you I was completely new to all this when I first came here too.. Most all I know I have learned between HD and here-and doing it. Welcome!!

Happy Stillin'
Offline dieselduo  
#3 Posted : Friday, August 23, 2013 9:30:35 AM(UTC)
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I would nix the turbo and use a bread yeast. It won't give you as high of an ABV but won't give off as much nasties either. I throw away 250 ML which will include the fores and some of the heads and save the tails for the next run.You just need to know how to run your still.The more you run it the better you will get . That includes cuts.The slower the better imho
Offline RCRed  
#4 Posted : Friday, August 23, 2013 9:45:09 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: dieselduo Go to Quoted Post
The slower the better imho
Aye, Listen to DieselUserPostedImage, save you time/material he will... BigGrin This is probably the biggest secret - taking yer time with it, goin slo/low with heat..Don' boil it too hot-too-fast, get 'er to temp and then reduce... (heat) Low and (drip) Slow BigGrin (You'll see it once you do it) . I hardly ever add heat once drippin's start... The PSIIC (I hav a 15gal) is really well built and configured correctly and sealed, works exceptionally well, and that goes a long way-she'll carry ya well as long as ya follow the basics.

Later you'll see other types of runs that DO use higher heat - stripping runs. But for now, focus on the fundemental process. It 's like Nutrisystem, It works ! UserPostedImage
Offline heeler  
#5 Posted : Friday, August 23, 2013 12:54:14 PM(UTC)
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"I think that recipe is gonna produce lots of nasties to begin with,......as to the cuts question, all the posts above are right on in my opinion as well.
I understand that cuts for someone new can seem like a oh shit moment but remember get rid of the first 100-150ml's just like you said and then collect every drop after that ====== now the confusing part===== collect in small quantities like 5-10 oz jars, WHAT YOU SAY???? Thats right if you collect in lots and lots of small jars and then tomorrow when you make your cuts you will be able to pick out where each cut is gonna fall.
Again your thinking....what the hell is he talking about?????? Well the heads may fill 2 jars and the hearts may fill 12 jars, but you wont know until some time later like tomorrow when you go to sniffin those jars to make your cuts, cause thats how you make em, ---- with your nose, in 24-48 hours or so.

If you turn on your still and start collecting in big jars your gonna get smearing, I'm sure you've heard that term and it means collecting different parts of the run and NOT seperating the good from the bad. Thats the reason for the small jars, so once your done stilling you can use your nose to find which jars are the good stuff and the not so good. There's no mistaking whats what after they sit for 24 hours or so. Unless you put all your distillate in a few big jars then its too late, unless you wanna run it again and then seperate it.
Then comes the ? of when do I quit, well at this time in your learning let the abv or proof be your guide. I only keep down to 80 proof or so and that may be about 200 degrees F. Your at the tails around there, you can keep collecting if you want or just turn it off and call it good enough. But if your still collecting in small jars it will be seperated anyway and you'll be able to smell the difference in the tails and hearts. Smell is your guide."
Offline heeler  
#6 Posted : Friday, August 23, 2013 1:04:32 PM(UTC)
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"Here's another way of looking at it.....

foreshots...100-150ml's

heads........4 small jars (total of a 1.5 pints)

hearts........13 small jars (total of 2.5 quarts)

tails...........5 small jars (total of 1/2 pint)

All those jars are lined up and waiting for you to sniff em and figger out what's what. Start in the middle and go left and right..you'll be able to tell the good from the bad. From a 5 gallon run I get about 2 quarts of hearts but of course I dont know that until later when I can sniff em and make my cuts."
Offline DraughtDoctor  
#7 Posted : Friday, August 23, 2013 11:35:13 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: heeler Go to Quoted Post
I think that recipe is gonna produce lots of nasties to begin with,......


How come this recipe will produce lots of nasties? too much sugar up front? wrong yeast?

Thanks for all the help everyone! This will give me a lot to read up on before i make my first run
Offline RCRed  
#8 Posted : Friday, August 23, 2013 11:48:26 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DraughtDoctor Go to Quoted Post
How come this recipe will produce lots of nasties? too much sugar up front? wrong yeast?

Thanks for all the help everyone! This will give me a lot to read up on before i make my first run
Mornin' DDr.. Yes, that Turbo yeast is known to for high abv, but also drags a lot of nasties along for the ride.... As diesel advised, bread yeast is preferable to turbo. I only use turbo's on sugar washes I am going to filter or use as fuel or solvents, or refluxed and then used as a blending spirit. Yes, it works really fast, but we take on some nasti's from the quick ferment..

Lot's of folks like turbo's and a lot more don't. I use them, but not nearly as often as I do bread yeast or something like Prestige WD for a whiskey- It all depends on what you are after for a flavor profile in yer run.

And yes sir, there's a bunch a reading to do b4 the first run.. I found that out too when I first started.... But it's worth the wait. So much easier when armed with some information, Also, search youtube for distillin' vids - there are some good ones from New Zealand/Aussie land that are excellent for "looking over the shoulders" while someone's making a run. There are also a lot of derfwad vids too, so use yer nose.. If it seems stupid or counter to what you've read and see folk doin', well, it probably is...

Cheers and, happy, SAFE stillin' :)
Offline DraughtDoctor  
#9 Posted : Sunday, August 25, 2013 1:08:50 PM(UTC)
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Fair to say that this has been by far the most helpful thread i could have asked for. Thanks everyone for getting a newbie rolling!

Cheers!
Offline heeler  
#10 Posted : Monday, August 26, 2013 1:44:51 AM(UTC)
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"
Originally Posted by: DraughtDoctor Go to Quoted Post
How come this recipe will produce lots of nasties? too much sugar up front? wrong yeast?

Thanks for all the help everyone! This will give me a lot to read up on before i make my first run


First off let me say -- I'm not belittling or degrading you at all...this is a trap we all fell into when we started. Someone stated, this is the easiest recipe ever or this is a beginners recipe. In my expirence it is a easy recipe for failure or should I say dissapointment. Oh it'll make etoh but prolly not what you want it to be.
As to why exactly I think both the reasons you stated, but thats part of the learning curve I guess. Try it and it may the best to you or it may need some tweaking to get it to what you REALLY want. In my opinion 15 lbs of sugar in a 5 gallon wash if pretty high,(you stated 30lbs in 10 gallons) no dought that yeast will consume it buuuuuut.
Make it and distill it several times and that will clean it up some, then put it through carbon a time or two and it might be the best you ever made. Its all about the learning anyway."
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