 Rank: Newbie Groups: Registered
Joined: 8/28/2014(UTC)
Posts: 7
|
"I have had very good success with the sugar based corn recipes, but have had no luck with straight corn/grain combos and not sure what I am doing wrong.
I use cracked corn and sweet feed, and wash both thoroughly before heating to remove the preservative. The well water I use is very good, but I still heat it to a rapid boil to sterilize the 7 gallon fermenter. When the water cools to 160 degrees I add the corn and sweet feed along with 2 teaspoons of the alpha enzyme. That stays heated for 2 hours. I let it sit over night to cool and then add the Brewhaus whiskey yeast. I do see some bubbling in the trap over the next few days, but when it is strained and then distilled, I get nothing until about 200 degrees - very poor and thin, typical tails.....I am obviously missing something basic, your comments please.
Thanks,"
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Rank: Senior Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 11/15/2012(UTC)
Posts: 720
Was thanked: 11 time(s) in 11 post(s)
|
Ok, about your SFgrain... I use an all grain/mollasses SF so I don't wash that off... My mixed grain recipe also uses 7 lbs of sugar per 5 gal of wort. Other'n that we are using basically the same recipe. I use a modified version of the Sweet Feed recipe listed here at BH in the recipe section.
After you boil that water to sterilize, are you aerating it agin? The boil drives Ox from the water, and it needs a good 10 mins with the paint whirly on a drill or, a ox infusion from a pure Ox tank.. Also, I don't leave over night to cool. I have some 1 gal tea jugs I have frozen with sterile water. I sterilze the outside of the jug with star-san and use it to cool my wort to pitch temp - about every 5 mins I take the jug out, spin it (Using the paint whirly) to spread the cool wort, temp check and repeat as necessary to pitch temp....I read somewhere that leaving a wash overnight like that can get infected and so, I just took to finishing my washes in one setting as a rule...Also, get a SG and an FG hydrometer reading on the washes - that will allow you to calculate the EtOH % in the wash and thereby u can calc the temp you should first see distillate come out at... :) |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Newbie Groups: Registered
Joined: 8/28/2014(UTC)
Posts: 7
|
Thanks - I didn't think about the Ox depletion and I will look at cooling it the same way. BTW - do you use a thumper? If so what size - 1 gallon? Still would like to make a corn/grain with no sugar at all.
Many thanks
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Senior Member Groups: Registered, Moderator
Joined: 4/14/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,666
Was thanked: 15 time(s) in 15 post(s)
|
"Plz dont think I'm trying to be nasty, but as you stated - I'm obviously missing something!!!!! Since you are a newbie to the hobbie (you stated in another thread)
this is a pretty lofty goal at this time in your learning. Not saying your never gonna make it happen but ya gotta crawl ....well you know the rest, and man that certainly is true in the likker making hobbie. Researching and understanding of the very basics to build upon takes time, it also takes succeses and failures.
If some one gave you the recipe and you didn't understand the process of making it happen ---- and lets say it still would'nt work, you would say the recipe is wrong or that guy is just stupid when in fact understanding what makes it happen is the building block to success.
It's science but it's not rocket science, but you can't build a rocket before you know what makes it work.
Now I know that's not what you want to hear but I know if you keep at it you will learn to make it. By that I mean hold off on that recipe for now, READ-READ-READ and READ some more, understanding every component and ingrediant is a must for etoh production and collection.
this is just my opinion and no offense or belittleing is intended."
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Newbie Groups: Registered
Joined: 8/28/2014(UTC)
Posts: 7
|
To a degree I understand where you are coming from, but there are some 3800 threads and over 28,000 posts on this forum alone, and it would've been nice to have been pointed in the right direction. I am trying to build on what I have already achieved.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Senior Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 1/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 804
Was thanked: 5 time(s) in 5 post(s)
|
" Quote:but there are some 3800 threads and over 28,000 posts on this forum alone This forum is indeed a great resource! Lots of reading to keep you busy.  Quote:and it would've been nice to have been pointed in the right direction. Given the level of detail you provided in your OP, you were pointed in the right direction. Nobody wants to deny you the joy of discovery ... and the satisfaction that comes along with it. And figuring out the specific questions to ask is something we all develop as we climb the learning curve. Get a copy of Palmer's book ""How to Brew"" and read it a few times (or visit http://www.howtobrew.com/sitemap.html) ... it's one of my favorite references ... there are some sections that I've probably read a dozen times. Pay close attention to the parts about gelatinization, liquifaction/saccharification, types of enzymes, mash pH/temperature, water chemistry adjustments ... as those are always the most likely culprits. There are a few things that I can offer a few suggestions based on your initial post: make sure the grains are properly crushed and are thoroughly cooked out (gelatinized & pasted). you need some beta amylase or some glucoamylase (for saccharification). when you ""wash both thoroughly"" you're probably washing away fermentable sugar from the sweetfeed. pH/temp can have a huge effect on your efficiency you'll probably want/need some calcium (for the alpha amylase) Nail down the the top three suggestions first (after reading Palmer). Try a few mini-mashes, and take some measurements that you can share if things don't work out as you expect. When things are working right, then scale up. Regards, --JB"
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Senior Member Groups: Registered, Moderator
Joined: 4/14/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,666
Was thanked: 15 time(s) in 15 post(s)
|
"JB, you made a post once about diastic powers and the values of each grain in a wash..------I know I'm missing some info there but could you add some of that info in this thread for the OP to add to his knowledge base?
I too saw the - washed throughly - statment and thats what prompted my response to the original post.
ingpark1....plz go to the Whiskey forum on this site, lots of info can be found there that might help you get a grain wash together that will work for you, I'm sorry to be so short but it's a pretty indepth explination that's already posted in other threads, JB posted an indepth explination about a grain wash that I cant' seem to find to direct you to now."
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Senior Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 1/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 804
Was thanked: 5 time(s) in 5 post(s)
|
heeler, I think this might be the one you're referring to: http://www.brewhausforum...lp&p=31590#post31590 ingpark, since you're not using any malt, you'll need to use some commercial enzymes. You're already using some alpha (liquifaction), but you'll need some beta or gluco (saccharification). You didn't mention which alpha you're using, but note that the specs are NOT the same wrt ph/Temp. If you're using generic stuff from a LHBS, I'd recommend that you either find a spec sheet for it, or discard it and find a product with a spec sheet ... or just use it up for your homebrew projects. The table below lists the specs for some commercially available enzyme products. If you're using Rick's stuff, that should be the powder BA-100/GA-100. Summary of Commercially Available Amylase Products [table="width: 600, class: grid"] [tr] [td] Product Name[/td] [td] Classification[/td] [td] Organism[/td] [td] Optimum Temp Range[/td] [td] Optimum pH Range[/td] [td] Media[/td] [td] Recommended Dosing (per lb. grain)[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]SEBstar HTL[/td] [td]Alpha-amylase[/td] [td]B. licheniformis[/td] [td]80 - 85º C[/td] [td]5.6 - 6.5[/td] [td]Liquid[/td] [td]0.1 - 0.4 mL[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]SEBamyl BA-100[/td] [td]Alpha-amylase[/td] [td]B. subtilis[/td] [td]55 - 75º C[/td] [td]4.5 - 7.0[/td] [td]Powder[/td] [td]0.6 - 1.2 g[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]SEBamyl-GL[/td] [td]Glucoamylase[/td] [td]A. niger[/td] [td]55 - 60º C[/td] [td]2.8 - 5.5[/td] [td]Liquid[/td] [td]0.2 - 0.4 mL[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]SEBamyl GA-100[/td] [td]Glucoamylase[/td] [td]A. niger[/td] [td]55 - 60º C[/td] [td]2.8 - 5.5[/td] [td]Powder and Liquid[/td] [td]0.6 - 1.0 g[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]SEBfuel-G[/td] [td]Glucoamylase[/td] [td]Rhizopus[/td] [td]55 - 60º C[/td] [td]2.8 - 5.0[/td] [td]Powder[/td] [td]0.6 - 1.0 g[/td] [/tr] [/table]
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Newbie Groups: Registered
Joined: 8/28/2014(UTC)
Posts: 7
|
John / Heeler -
I noticed that my earlier reply did not go through so I will say thank you again for your time and responses. I have been reading more in the whiskey forum and ordered palmer's book. may thanks. I will check the PH of the wash in my next foray, I was not doing that. I did have a few questions: I washed the grain and the cracked corn because both have propionic acid preservative added and I read that this could corrupt/kill the yeast. is that not a concern?
On the alpha-amylase, I use the BA-100 from Brewhaus...the package says the range is 152-158F or 66-70c, I read that the enzyme breaks down over 65c or 150f...should I be more towards the lower end of the range you give here?
Finally, I used the whiskey yeast from Brewhaus that has Gluco included. is that amount sufficient or should I be adding more?
Thanks,
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Senior Member Groups: Registered, Moderator
Joined: 4/14/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,666
Was thanked: 15 time(s) in 15 post(s)
|
"Since I'm old my mind wanders sometimes, ingpark1, I was wondering, have you made any of the other feau grain likkers?? Like - UJSSM or DWWG or Gerber Baby food Neutral???
Not trying to be snippy or anything but any of those that you can master will build your confidense in the grain end of the hobby if you will.
These aren't really all grain recipes that require mashing and spargeing of grains but they are good enough to at least try a few times and use a learning tools for the future all grains that you get together."
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Newbie Groups: Registered
Joined: 8/28/2014(UTC)
Posts: 7
|
Yes, the UJSSM with good luck....I'm getting there albeit slowly. I spent some time on the PH of the last trial and found the mash to be very acidic, I was very surprised.
Hope all is well at your end
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Rank: Junior Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 11/6/2013(UTC)
Posts: 42
|
For the corn to work for you, it has to be gelatinized. If it hasn't been gelatinized, you'll have no starch for the enzymes to convert to sugar. No sugar, no food for the yeast, no food for the yeast, no alcohol. Hope this helps. I don't do the sweet feed, but have dabbled a bit with the corn all grain process. Not what I would consider great success, but learned quite a bit each time it didn't turn out the way I wanted it. I have still not achieved the results I desire, but it gets closer each time. I keep a pretty detailed notebook to refer back to.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Junior Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 10/2/2013(UTC)
Posts: 11
|
"[I have never seen it put any more simple. Fatboi, you nailed it.
QUOTE=fatboi83;31652]For the corn to work for you, it has to be gelatinized. If it hasn't been gelatinized, you'll have no starch for the enzymes to convert to sugar. No sugar, no food for the yeast, no food for the yeast, no alcohol. Hope this helps. I don't do the sweet feed, but have dabbled a bit with the corn all grain process. Not what I would consider great success, but learned quite a bit each time it didn't turn out the way I wanted it. I have still not achieved the results I desire, but it gets closer each time. I keep a pretty detailed notebook to refer back to. "
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.
