 Rank: Junior Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 1/13/2007(UTC)
Posts: 19
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"Hey All and Elricko,
It's stuck. Elricko, I followed your recipe of 16 pounds of dark cane sugar with a pint of Brier Rabbit dark molasses. I pitched the yeast at 76 degrees 10 hours ago and nothing. It's in a 25 liter bucket and is now down to 68 degrees with nothing happening. Any suggestions anyone?
Yours,
PJ Lily"
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Rank: Junior Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/2/2007(UTC)
Posts: 83
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"PJ,What kind of yeast did you use?I just started 2 five gallon carboys,with 14 pounds of dark brown,and 1 jar of molassus each.I used turbo 48.A half a pack in each carboy.They have both started up.So far,so good!
wineo"
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Rank: Junior Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 5/13/2007(UTC)
Posts: 86
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16 should have been fine with 48. What yeast? What was the SG? Did you whip it full of oxygen before pitching?
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Rank: Junior Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 1/13/2007(UTC)
Posts: 19
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"Hey Guys,
The yeast I used was the Turbo 48 and the SG was 1.115.
It's been outside all night (I didn't want any foaming surprises in the night) and the bucket thermometer has gone down to 60 degrees. I'm going to bring it inside, up the temp ten degrees or so.
A pint of molasses, 16# of brown sugar, Turbo 48, and enough water to 25 liters, pitched at 76. But Wineo, did you say you had essentially the same recipe but half the yeast...? And Brew, sure did whip 02 into it. It was too warm to pitch, so I stirred it quite a lot until the temp went down.
Thoughts or experience?
And isn't the new sight cool?
Yours,
PJ Lily"
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Rank: Junior Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 5/13/2007(UTC)
Posts: 86
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"Get it warmed up as quick as possible. Do you have a ph kit?
if not feed it two table spoons citrus fruit juice as the very last resort along with yeast energizer and nutrient.
Until then and only after its warm, try some other things:
Once warm add a couple table spoons of turbo to a quart dilluted 50% with clean water. if it goes, pull a gallon from the bucket and and mix the quart in. wait till its all working and picth the gallon back. If its still not going dillute the gallon a bit more and start a culture with ec1118, ec1116 or red star cuvee if you have it.
Sounds like a bad pack of turbo, may be blasted with heat during shipping, or a big clump of DAP or something else in it that the yeast couldnt handle. More than likely its just too cold.
Worst case after 4 days boil it all again, sanitise everything and when the garbage settles out, rack off and start like nothing happened.
Had a couple wine batches stick, but never lost any. keep nurtient and energiser handy but follow the amounts on the package, never more. Wine is tricky stuff but mash is straight forward.
Honestly-
I think it will take off on its own once it gets warmed up, but those are options. Turbo makes heat and likes heat. once it gets cold it goes slow like any other yeast so if it takes off expect extra time."
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Rank: Junior Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/2/2007(UTC)
Posts: 83
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"PJ,Yes I used a half of a pack of turbo 48 in each 5 gallon carboy.the airlocks are going like jackhammers.A half a pack has enough neutrents in it to ferment the high sg,but not so much left over when its done.It might take longer to work,but finishes cleaner.
wineo"
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Rank: Junior Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 1/13/2007(UTC)
Posts: 19
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"Hey Guys,
Hey Brew. No ph kit. And is there really a chance of a bum bag of Turbo? I bought a box of 25 and all the others have been swell. Huh.
I'm wary of adding more yeast nutrient as I've had colored distilate from having too much nutirent. A danger I've heard from having too much yeast is odd flavors, though that hasn't happened to me. Would there be a risk of that if I were to add more yeast? And what would be a ""yeast energizer""?
Hey Wineo. Like the idea of halving the Turbo. Do you still get the same alcohol levels when you split the package? And would ""longer to work"" mean a week or more? I generally pitch my Turbo and then not look at it for 5 days or more.
Thanks for the advice and I will let you know how it all turns out.
Yours,
PJ Lily
p.s. Have either of read my questions on a new still design in one of the other topic places? Wanting some opinions is all. pjl"
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Rank: Junior Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 5/13/2007(UTC)
Posts: 86
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"Well the chance would be low, but if humans are involved there is always a chance. with that many I doubt it. Wineo is right, if you use air stones and there is enough balance a pack could go 4 ways only very slow. The size of pack is weighed for the amount of time.
Warm it up. I bet it will start slow and finish long. (and clean)(assuming sanitising agents were used properly and your not fighting bacteria)
You have really done nothing wrong other than temp. (I did the same thing awhile back at a little lower than 60 and it came back after pacing in front of the bucket a couple days. I was too embarrassed to ask, but I should have.)
If the temp doesn't do it you need a low gravity starter of the same yeast:
Once warm add a couple table spoons of turbo to a quart of wash that is dilluted 50% with clean (sterile) water. if it goes, wait till its boiling good and pull a gallon from the bucket and and mix the quart in. wait till its all working and pitch the gallon back. The idea here is to begin a small amount of fresh (identical) yeast that will spread under lower gravity and then use the nutrient that is already there. It will probably eat the other yeast if it is dead as well (natural energiser). Using the same variety ensures the nutrient mix you already have is correct.
If the top two don't cover it you are kind of scr%wed. thats when you move on and try the salvage game.
Starter of different hi tolerance yeast. If that doesn't fly then its salvage time.
Yes you do want to avoid excess nutrient and energizer at all costs. Always add an energiser first and wait 6-8 hours before adding or thinking about adding a nutrient. Energiser is usualy enough. That is a last ditch at best. Too much yeast is bad. a clearing agent and extra time won't fix that all the way either. Boiling off and starting new,will get you a filtered vodka and not rum due to bad smells if you can get it kickstarted ok.
Let us know how its going."
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Rank: Junior Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/2/2007(UTC)
Posts: 83
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"PJ,I bet that turbo 48 will start doing its thing,once it warms up.I would warm it up to 75-80f until it starts up,and not add anything to it.That turbo has a ton of stuff in it,so adding more would probably be a bad thing.I always start my turbos warm.usually 80-90f,and they always start up within an hour.It always cools back down by the next day,all by its self.
Using a half a pack will add a week to the fermentation time,but you get a cleaner finish,and you get some mileage out of the turbo.Im doing it for the cleanleiness.I will let you know how long these batches take to finish.
I will check out your plans on the other post,and give you my 2 cents worth.
wineo"
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Rank: Junior Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 1/13/2007(UTC)
Posts: 19
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"Hey Guys,
Wineo and Brew, you guys were both correct: it has now started and has continued on but only sooo slowly. It could even be called lackluster. But I suppose if it's going it's going.
Not having an electric hot plate to warm up the plastic bucket I opened the oven door and set the bucket on a low stool in front of the open door. Turned the oven up as high as it would go (550) as I knew I'd be heating the whole kitchen as well as the bucket. About two hours later it was up to 76 degrees with the airlock emitting the half-ass bubble. But it's going! Will definintely pitch higher rather than lower next time. Never had this problem before though; is a rum/molasses wash that much different from any other wash?
So it seems like the next tool I need to get in my arsenal is a ph tester. What should the ph be for this molasses wash? Hell, is there a handy referance guide for the different ph of different washes? A rule of thumb?
So when I finally get this wash to boiler I plan to use my reflux column with no reflux retaining as much flavor as possible. Soak pineapple in the distillate and then put in chips (I can't afford barrels....) My big plan.
Y'all think it should be finished ready to go to the boiler in about 10 days what with the slow start and slow going?
Very appreciative of all the help.
Yours,
PJ Lily"
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Rank: Junior Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 5/13/2007(UTC)
Posts: 86
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"Don't feel bad, I pulled the same thing with rare cabernet grapes. It was smelling a bit so I put it outside with a garbage bag around it for insulation. It came back but not for 48hrs. That would have been a very spendy near disaster unlike a sugar wash.
Kimo's in Maui was the world master for pineapples. One of if not the top Mai Tais on the planet.They take two years to prepare, and I am sworn to secrecy, so it won't be devulged here.
There are standard ranges for PH and fermentation. exacts I don't have without looking in a book, and you also need to take into account you specific recipie, if you have any unusual ingredients, they can throw it off. Most people buy the test strips. I also believe that the yeast folks will know for each type."
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Rank: Junior Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 1/13/2007(UTC)
Posts: 19
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"Hey Brew,
Any secret is safe with me!!!
When you write ""looking in a book"", what book? I have a few, but none of them have any ph charts.
Oh, and believe me. I have got some real doozies about me distillin'. I've not made a mistake twice and certainly have not made all of them. But so far they've all ended with no injury and all make the ""Let's Laugh at PJ Again"" group of my friends fall to the floor.
You a California Boy? (the grape comment)
Yours,
PJ Lily"
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Rank: Junior Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/2/2007(UTC)
Posts: 83
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"The ph for any mash,or wine needs to be in the 3.8 to 4.8 range.Even at 5 it will be ok,but you start having problems once it gets higher than that.
The ph of water is around 7.It dont have to be right on the mark,just in the range is fine.
wineo"
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Rank: Junior Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 1/13/2007(UTC)
Posts: 19
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"Hey All,
Thanks Wineo. 3.8 to 4.8. Gotcha. 4.2 being optimum?
And good news, all. The Rum wash has realized what it is supposed to do and is now happily burbbling away with vigor. I'll try not to go all weak kneed the next time.
Many Thanks.
Yours,
PJ Lily"
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Rank: Junior Member Groups: Registered
Joined: 5/13/2007(UTC)
Posts: 86
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Cali? me? not now. I used to be across the bridge from you and about 30 miles south in chippy country. I'm in the sticks now. Seattle/tacoma is the closest cities but a ways out. Brought my wine tastes with me though.
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