"Hi Alli,


It's in the final version (1.0) as well ... I just moved it into the introduction chapter ... I figured it made more sense to state where we wanted to go first, then follow with how we can get there.

--JB"

"Maddawgs,
I am not as computer savey as I thought - I can't fiigure out how to copy a Word doc to this forum. When I do, I will post it. BTW my letter and legislative proposal has been re-assigned to another legislative aid in Senator Kaine's office. . Will advise when I hear something. Keeping my fingers crossed.
Alli"

"

It worked, I just was not paying enough attention. OK the letter is posted below - many of my points are already in the proposal, however I was trying to give these folks a little background of where we are coming from. You are welcome to use as little or as much of it as you wish. Alli

Date,,,,,,..

Dear,,,,,,,..,

I am sending you a document that proposes changes to 26 USC Chapter 51. Since the 18th amendment (prohibition) was repealed in 1933, it has been a federal crime to distill alcohol without a costly permit. During the early 1970's, the federal statutes were revised to allow beer and wine production by individuals without any permit or license; however the distillation of said beer or wine is still unlawful.

It is general knowledge that illegal distillation of alcohol (better known as moonshine ) has been around since the repeal of prohibition for the purpose of making and selling illegal untaxed alcohol. However during the past 5 years or so with the tremendous growth of online internet sales, everything imaginable is available online - this includes distilling equipment, vast amounts of information on distilling in general and numerous forums for beginners and advanced distillers to discuss their hobby. There has truly developed a very large community of hobby distillers who do it for the fun and entertainment, not for sales and/or profit - this is true not just in America, but all over the world. Alcohol distillation is legal in only a few countries such as New Zealand and Australia.

All you need do is an online search for alcohol distilling equipment and you will find numerous companies that sell equipment and supplies for everything a brewer, wine maker or distiller could possibly want. In the past few months the TTB (Alcohol Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau) sent a request (more of a demand) to all of the major online distillery equipment sellers asking for a list of the customer's names/addresses who bought distilling equipment during the past 36 months. The customer's names are to be forwarded hereafter on a quarterly basis.

What the TTD intends to do with all these names is unclear to the general public. According to one supplier, it is estimated that there have been between 90,000 and 100,000 stills sold in the past 3 years in the US alone. It is also guesstimated that another 100,000 stills have been made at home during that time using the many plans and diagrams available to anyone with a computer.

The distilling community in the US is a diverse and anonymous group. Since home distilling is illegal, everyone uses aliases when communicating on online forums. No one knows anyone's real name. This is not a community of law breakers distilling hundreds and hundreds of gallons of untaxed booze. The average home hobby distiller probably distills 10 gallons (at the most) of alcohol per year. The recent movie on TV about moonshiners did the hobby distillers a great disservice because those guys were criminals producing and selling thousands of gallons of unlicensed and untaxed liquor.

No one wants the TTD to come snooping around their yard or garage looking for a still or untaxed spirits. To begin with, it would be a huge waste of precious federal resources. If the TTD found a couple of gallons of untaxed spirits in some guy's garage, with the federal alcohol tax at $13.50 per gallon, the federal taxes owed would be $27.00. Is that worth hauling someone into federal court? Did you know that in Virginia it is against the state law to own (possess) a still? How antiquated is that? To own the equipment to distill water is against the law.

The US hobby distilling community would like to be on a par with the beer and wine makers. They would like to be able to produce the same amount of beer (mash) that can legally be produced today and distill as little or as much of that legal amount as they wish. To get this done, a sponsor in Washington needs to be found. Someone who can look at what is being proposed and say what is good or bad about the approach and then help get new legislation passed.

I voted for Senator Kaine, so his office is where I started. I would appreciate it very much if you will look over the proposal, let me know what you think and suggest where we go from here. I will be happy to come to DC to discuss this matter at any time. I have not been appointed by anyone to write this letter or send you the proposal - I am just doing what I think needs to be done.

Sincerely Yours,"

"Hi Alli,

See posts 21 and 23 in this thread and also the beginning of ""Lets get this process started"" thread. Lots of initial enthusiasm (especially from hillbilly mike, who hasn't even logged in over the past month), but little else beyond that as far as I can see.

I voiced my opion about the manufacturers' motivation here:
http://www.brewhausforum...ad.php?3768-Another-noob!!&p=27310#post27310

So far, I haven't been privy to any information that would change my opinion. If most hobbyists started building their own rigs, then you might see some activity. For now, I'd say it's up to us.

Regards,
--JB"

I have to agree, I think someone suggested a legalization thread in the TTB inquiry thread and admin had one up the next day. After a day or two of no activity I started the "lets get this process started" thread. Admin and Mike from hillbilly have both posted to it. Mike to post a link about the petition and Admin to caution us to take it slow and do it right. I would also like to see more involvement but I do understand supplier caution on to much involvement. In this country if you want to hurt someone or a cause the standard practice is to go after the money and suppliers have more to lose than the hobby distiller. As for our involvement, on the 2 threads dealing with potential legalization there are several posts by mostly 20 or so members and a lot of work done by JB with a pretty good assist by Alli and an upcoming powerpoint from RCred. This forum has upwards of 6000 members so this is a pretty poor showing for what should be a very important next step for our hobby. The TTB has our information and this and the other forums are open forums so even the people who have built their own could be known. The government can act on the info they have any time they want. If we sit and choose not to get involved then we have to take whatever happens to us. The power to change things is in our hands, this is still a government of the people. If enough of us speak, they have to listen. Sorry for the rant---Maddawgs

I agree. It is unfortunate that many of the people who want hobby distilling legalized are unwilling to get involved in legalization efforts. If it is a matter of 'then they will know who I am', well, surprise, even if you were not specifically on one of the producer's lists, "they" likely know who you are, anyway. I will be contacting my representatives, so that is one more on the list.

Thank you JB, Alli, Maddawg, and everyone else who has put so much work into this. While it would be really nice to see a larger group get involved, hopefully one of us will hit the right chord in one of our representatives, and we will get somewhere with this.

That is a profound statement.

Look, folks... Whether or not the forums here and elsewhere are public or not, the HSA/CIA/NSA have long since copped everylast thing we have sent back and forth - they didn't do it by signin' up as members and trolling.. That's far too pedestrian and simply NOT possible given the sheer volume of message (or forum) boards on the internet. There are forums for every last thing on the planet. Many discussing much more sinister and illegal topics than making some drippin's... I do not frequent those, but I do know they exist. You cannot imagine the number of them that talk overthrow of governments, and all manner of skullduggery - My point is that it's IMPOSSIBLE for humans to manually track alll that diatribe.

They (government) use the PRISM program which uses devices at all major carriers called a "network switch' that the fiber communication cables run thru before going to other destinations - so regardless of site, whom, where or how, they got the traffic. Even encryption mehods can be broken if a master key was granted, and there are plenty of news out there that each big internet carrier did so under court order.

Think of it as a toll booth, that simply makes a copy of the traffic (and data is traffic, packed into little "packets', like a car) as it passes thru on the way to it's destination. Data packets contain headers and trailer information that outline it's origin, target, type of data, and finally the content. We geeks in the IT industry built it that way so the internet could evolve over the past 15 years.

We never built it so the govt could eavesdrop, but just like with any science, it can be perverted, and Lord knows we have one perverted ass government right now. So, we are hiding nothing. And I agree with MD, it is senseless to live in fear. It makes more sense to rally agin the stupidity, and demand change.

So, I agree with MD. I'll produce the powerpoint, and I'll stand "loud and proud" for the cause.

One other point.. That fool who wrote the Distillers Workbook is pushing a legalization effort via "Facial Book". I thought pretty good of his book until I saw a post he made to me saying message boards and they's folks don't mean that you get viable info (question was about using alum instead of stainless on the boiler vessel)...

I pretty much lost all respect for that guy at that point as I have learned 1000% more between AD, here and HD sites than I ever did reading his book, or listening to the audiobook version. But a vehicle is a vehicle, whata I care about the color or seats...So maybe that's an avenue - He's tracking the states where hobbyists are signing petitions for legalization.

Yes sir, I know.. I was trying not to go too deep or scare folks... Many peeps don't realize the FCC owns the airwaves and freq's so the phone companies have always had secret agreements with the govt. It's just at this time in America's history we are truly unable to trust it any more...Sad.

That is great, Alli. If enough of us send the proposal to our representatives, and make them aware of the situation (I am sure that most are unaware of the legal difference a hobby distiller faces versus a hobby brewer or wine maker) we may just get things changed. My time has been very limited lately, so I am recruiting my wife to gather the representatives information for me so that I can do my part. :-)

Heya Alli,

I didn't mean to infer the redcoats were coming :) I was just stating the facts about the data collection going on against our 1st ammendment rights in America. I was hoping folks would realize it and yell at their representation about it. I see today the Congress is moving to defund it all, which is a start.

I'll just keep my opines to myself on the data side of things. It's just important to realize that staying silent allows them to win in the battle of stripping our liberties from us.