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Offline luis  
#1 Posted : Monday, October 12, 2009 9:52:12 AM(UTC)
luis


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"Is it required to always filter and age every distillate? The stuff came out smelling like wet cardboard, which I imagine is typical for a sugar wash alcohol. Where do I go from here to turn this into something I can be proud of? I was careful to throw away the front and even the first part of the head. I also avoided the tail by collecting into different containers and when the smell started getting worse I stopped.

Is filtering always required? Or is aging the key? How long to age? I am using a pot still, if that makes any difference, and the end result is 30 proof."
Offline mtnwalker2  
#2 Posted : Monday, October 12, 2009 10:47:49 AM(UTC)
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"
Originally Posted by: luis Go to Quoted Post
Is it required to always filter and age every distillate? The stuff came out smelling like wet cardboard, which I imagine is typical for a sugar wash alcohol. Where do I go from here to turn this into something I can be proud of? I was careful to throw away the front and even the first part of the head. I also avoided the tail by collecting into different containers and when the smell started getting worse I stopped.

Is filtering always required? Or is aging the key? How long to age? I am using a pot still, if that makes any difference, and the end result is 30 proof.



Luis, Surely to God, you meant to say 30% ABV, not proof? Your sugar wash should have been 30 proof or close before distilling!

Sounds like you did a good or fair job with the heads and the wet cardboard smell is a sighn of tails. Useing a pot still, you are going to have to make at least 2 runs, many use 3 to make a decent neutral. You have to run it slow. You can keep the heads and tails for a later distillation when you have collected enough.

A pot still is hard work to get decent neutral, but it can be done. With a pot still the first and many times the second, you are going to get a continious mix of heads and heavy tails throughout your batch. First run, just strip and collect all. Second run, make some heavy cuts front and back, and third run do same again. when you have saved enough of the heads and tails for a decent and full run, you can then extract more of the good stuff, so nothing is wasted. just takes a long time and a lot of energy.

I love pot stilling, but I only do it for flavored brews. For neutral, nothing beats a good reflux column. You can build your own fairly easy, if you can solder copper or braze ss. I found it was as cheap and so much easier to buy one, with all the gadgets etc. to make it work.

Anyhow, when you have almost achieved a really good neutral, via re-stilling, then you can charcoal filter for the really good flavorless.

HTH"
Offline luis  
#3 Posted : Monday, October 12, 2009 11:17:12 PM(UTC)
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"You're right, it was 30% ABV, I had to check it again. The sugar wash was something I just put together to try out my new EZStill and probably didn't put enough sugar into the fermenter. I only did about 3L, just being eager to get something started, so it wasn't ideal.

I had 12L of a peach/mango wine fermenting. After racking off the top 8L or so, I took the bottom 3L (didn't transfer the 1L of sediment) and put it in the still. It had a much nicer taste, but could benefit from charcoal filtering I'm sure. I was surprised that it came out clear, though, expecting at least a hint of peach/mango hue. Does everything come out clear? This actually was around 90 proof (45% ABV). Does everything benefit from aging? What would you recommend I do from here?

I plan to make whiskeys, brandys and flavored alcohols so I may not go the reflux route anytime soon, knowing that I can redistill and get a decent result if I should want to make a batch of neutral.

My next project is to make a dark rum. It's already fermenting BigGrin But if it comes out of the distiller clear, I don't understand how the rum gets dark. Any help is definitely appreciated."
Offline mtnwalker2  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, October 13, 2009 3:05:08 AM(UTC)
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"Luis, Yes, it will always come out clear- unless you do something wrong.

The peach mango sounds fantastic. The ABV sounds fairly high for a once run pot stilling, unless you collected a lot of heads with it. Is there much of a sharp harsh bite?

If you filter with activated carbon, you will lose all flavor. You can re-run it to clean and increase flavor if necessary.

Your rum will come out clear. For a dark rum, you can age on oak chips, but the real color is usually achieved with carmalized sugar. You can use spices as well when ageing. raisons and apricots and such.

It is not a requirement to age everything. However, even vodka improves sitting for a month after diluteing. Some of the grains, and most of my brandies I prefere white. Its all just to personal taste."
Offline luis  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, October 13, 2009 4:22:55 AM(UTC)
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"The heads started at 90 proof, but closer to the tails it was about 75 proof. I'm running an EZStill and the problem is, it takes 200mL of distillate just to float the alcohol meter. I need to find something that can give me the percentage of alcohol using a smaller sample size.

I figured that rerunning the distillate would extract a higher proof alcohol and leave behind the flavors. I read somewhere that filtering through charcoal doesn't ruin the flavor, it takes out the impurities. However, I can see where the flavors could technically be impurities themselves, even if we want them in there. If I were to think about this a little more, I guess rerunning is to further purify the alcohol, and the flavors will come through better because of it?

I imagine I need to dilute the alcohol before rerunning to avoid drying out the still. Also, from what I've read, I have to let the alcohol sit for a few days with the additional dilution because it takes time for water to disperse evenly within the mixture. Is this true?

I'm going to put an inline 600 watt dimmer switch on my EZStill and see if I can get better results by turning down the power a little.

So... to become an expert at creating flavored alcohols, my goals are:

To find the hearts, not use charcoal to clean up my mistakes, and improve the quality of my fermentation by understanding the environments that affect alcohol production (and avoiding stressed yeast). Interesting. I'm loving this hobby more all the time. Thanks!"
Offline mtnwalker2  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, October 13, 2009 7:49:27 AM(UTC)
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"Luis, It gets even more fun and enjoyable as time goes on!

I am not familiar with the easy still cept what I have read about it. Here's a tip that helped me when I was starting:

Get a collection of bottles, beer bottles work great. Number them, and then collect your product in 200 ml or thereabout increments in each bottle. Let them sit for 24 hours to breath. Then starting with #1, dilute a sample and taste, smell. You will know when to make the cut to hearts. The same when you get to the tails and also checking for an oily feel when rubbed in the hand. Remember the smells, and you will soon be able to make the cuts while still is in progress.

Take notes, and you will soon know when to make the cuts via volume collected for each run of the same brew.

BTW, I still do this when I am makeing something new. A fruit brandy for instance.

Combine all the hearts and save the rest to a faints container for a neutral run when you have enough.
This process also helps when mkeing a flavored run, as you can add some of the late heads, and or early tails to give a bit more flavor- exactly to your likeing.

Filtering through charcoal like they do Tenn. whiskey may not take away the taste, but I don't think it will help with the congeners much.

Filtering through activated carbon will strip out all your flavors though. Excepting the heads. Where the headaches come from in store bought."
Offline Blanikdog  
#7 Posted : Sunday, January 17, 2010 6:05:33 PM(UTC)
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"Properly made spirits do not need to be activated charcoal filtered!!!

blanik"
Offline luis  
#8 Posted : Saturday, December 24, 2011 2:33:25 PM(UTC)
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"Well, it's 2 years since I last posted on this thread and I wanted to give an update for the new folks...

The peach-mango wine was made from pulp you can buy at the grocery store. It didn't stick around long enough to age, unfortunately BigGrin

After that, I got a can of cherry concentrate from the brew store and made a batch of cherry wine. Stripped it, distilled twice more, and got brandy from it. Aged it with a couple of maraschino cherries in each jar. Absolute heaven. Damn fine stuff there. Still got some aging, 2 years and counting...

I also recommend experimenting with pear wine, and about to do some of runs of grapefruit wine.

Thanks for all your help!"
Offline dgk  
#9 Posted : Sunday, January 08, 2012 1:28:38 AM(UTC)
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"A few questions about distilling wine.
First of all if you make your own wine like Luis just did do you age it at all or just rack it off a few times then into boiler?? second is would this be a good idea to try on some of my first few runs ? My plan is to get my potstillin down first and then give the reflux tower a whirl..
Thanks !"
Offline div4gold  
#10 Posted : Thursday, January 12, 2012 2:06:29 PM(UTC)
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Just let it settle, rack it and run it. If you have some less than drinkable wine then run it by all means.
Offline dgk  
#11 Posted : Thursday, January 12, 2012 4:56:37 PM(UTC)
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"
Originally Posted by: div4gold Go to Quoted Post
Just let it settle, rack it and run it. If you have some less than drinkable wine then run it by all means.


ok cool. nope no less than drinkable just about an endless supply of these little buggers.[ATTACH]142[/ATTACH]"
Offline luis  
#12 Posted : Thursday, January 12, 2012 5:42:46 PM(UTC)
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"Hey dgk, if you're reflux stilling, you might a well use a sugar wash. It don't matter whether you make your shine from fruit, corn, or sugar, with a reflux you are going for the high octane stuff, and aren't going to get flavor anyway. You are going for neutral with a reflux.

I like pot stillin' because I like to get some of the flavor of the original mash. I'm working on some real good Tennessee sour mash now, just got the first run of sweet whiskey through the still, and got some backset in the fermenter for the sour run. Can't wait."
Offline dgk  
#13 Posted : Thursday, January 12, 2012 10:17:11 PM(UTC)
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Ok . Well that was my next question . To reflux or potstill it because I have tons of blackberries,peaches and apples (literally) at little to no cost . And well I want to concentrate my stilling to mostly brandies. So it's safe to say ferment,let it settle and clear , rack it into boiler , potstill it and then age on some good oak?
Offline luis  
#14 Posted : Friday, January 13, 2012 10:36:30 AM(UTC)
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"You definitely want to pot still and not reflux if you want to make brandy. While many brandies are aged on oak, oaking itself is an art. Too much, and the wood flavor dominates, drowning out the subtle fruit flavors. Oak soaks up fusel oils, found in the tails, but that is where the fruit essence also lives. The key is to use oak for only a short period of time to soak up off-flavors, then age in glass. This is best for small scale brandy production. I haven't mastered the art enough to offer more guidance, but that is general idea. Oak also comes in light, medium, and dark toast, then there is French Oak versus Americsn Oak, and then there is charred oak.

Keep in mind you don't even need oak, I've made great brandies just aging the distillate with a piece of fruit. Corn whisky with a slice of green apple and a piece of cinnamon bark is one of my favorite drinks."
Offline Wrangler155  
#15 Posted : Monday, January 21, 2013 11:27:32 AM(UTC)
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"
Originally Posted by: div4gold Go to Quoted Post
Just let it settle, rack it and run it. If you have some less than drinkable wine then run it by all means.


I normally rack my wine at least twice before running it through my PS. I find it to not be as harsh. I run in 100ml increments. I also find that if I was planning on making wine, my proof starts lower because of less sugar. Starts at 100 proof, and I run until I start getting 50 proof right around 98c. All of it very drinkable. The lower proof stuff I don't have to dilute and I do get a hint of flavor from my fruit."
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